Okinawan Bo vs. Japanese Bo

[JosephBlow]

Being relatively green when it comes to staff arts, I'll bring up what I'm sure is a frequently asked question:

Can clear distinctions be drawn in the way that the bo is used in Japanese ryuha and the way Okinawans use it?

(Thought I'd try here first among the Japanese staff specialists before going to the Ryukyu kobudo list.)

For Japanese arts, I have seen the bo kata for Katori Shintoryu and the bo and jo kata for Kashima Shinryu. For Okinawan arts, I have seen the kata done by Matayoshi Shimpo, Inoue Motokazu, Chotoku Kyan, Soken Hohan, Tatsuo Shimabuku and several of the Yamaneryu kata.

Both Katori Shintoryu and Kashima Shinryu tended to use one end of the bo and employ it as a longer range weapon, presumably because it was being trained for use against a sword. Based on what I've seen, the Okinawan arts tended to break the bo into thirds and used both ends (though a couple of systems taught users to slide grips up and down the bo freely at a certain level, enabling the long-grip use as well). Footwork was a little different too, in part I assume because the Japanese arts I've seen were "sogo bujutsu" where ancillary weapons are heavily affected by the kenjutsu core.

I realize that this question may be unanswerable because it requires one to first lump disparate arts into two groups. For example, there may be a disparity in usage between Japanese groups who learn the bo as a supplement and those who focus on bo. Nevertheless, has anyone else tried to make this sort of comparison between Japan and Okinawa and if so, how fruitful was it? (I also welcome explanations why this is a waste of time.)

Also, if possible I'd love to see a Tokyo school teaching good bo and jo. (I am in Minato-ku.) I am happy to give whatever info about me you need.

Best regards,

Rich Boyden

[JosephBlow]

Hi Daniel, thanks for your helpful reply. A few things to add:

1. My apologies for omitting the Takamatsu-den arts -- the Japanese koryu people appear to draw a distinction between their arts and those of Hatsumi and Tanemura and I followed suit. The Takamatsu-den people also tend to keep to themselves. Nevertheless, I saw Hatsumi Masaaki use a stick in 1994 and his skill is excellent. His book in English about stick fighting has some very interesting ideas as well, some of which I have seen in Okinawan bo. I assume that he is one you had in mind when you mentioned grappling with a stick. What other arts are known for this?

2. You mention the "furi" -- do you mean a kind of hand-rolling figure eight pattern? If so, how do the overhand and underhand methods differ in application? I assume that the up-from-under method can be used to attack up under the weapon-wielding opponent's wrists and to entwine the arms, while the overhand method can work as a "bridging" move to the weapon or wrists before going into a follow-up strike (maybe also as a "harai" move to clear out the opposing weapon before rolling into an overhand strike or thrust).

3. How often is the rokushaku bo used as a grappling tool? I can think of times when I've seen it used to tie up the opposing weapon before delivering one's own strike, but given its length I haven't seen many practical applications with rokushaku bo that bind the opponent with any real finality. I assume that the sanshaku and yonshaku bo do this more often.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Rich

[Daniel Lee]

Hi Rich,

I agree with your insights in 2. Applications might be somewhat style specific though.

<3. How often is the rokushaku bo used as a grappling tool? I can think of times when I've seen it used to tie up the opposing weapon before delivering one's own strike, but given its length I haven't seen many practical applications with rokushaku bo that bind the opponent with any real finality. I assume that the sanshaku and yonshaku bo do this more often. >

I think so as well. Staff wise, grappling doesn?ft seem as prevalent as with the cane or palm stick in japanese budo does it? Redirections, flips, deflections and so on, but the amount of joint locking and throwing is relatively less seen. I reckon it?fs fair enough too – facing a sword with only a six foot length of stick, whipping with the stick means you can observe more distance too.

If you?fre interested, you can check out some pictures of araki-ryu, chikubushima-ryu, muhi muteki-ryu, and shibukawa-ryu bojutsu from the 6th Kobudo Taikai (Osaka) at http://www.hoops.ne.jp/~mshirou/o.kobutaikai.html.

Regards,

[Doug Daulton]

Hello all,

This information has also seen some replies in the Ryukyu Kobudo forum. If interested, you can read that thread here ...

http://204.95.207.136/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=5441

Regards,

[Eklian]

Ok fellow friends. i would prolly be your newest member here, and i guess i best come in with a question :wave:

Ok. do any of you know a site i can go to to see techniques of Bo fighting? or does such a thing not exist?

[Eklian]

Or perhaps there isn't one? :) oh well. Thanks anyhow friends. ;)

[Mark Brecht]

Hi,

welcome to ebudo. Please be so kind and sign with your full name, as this is a ebudo rule.

:up: It might help you to get an answer...