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Gogita9x
5th April 2001, 07:32
I am a JKD/jujutsu student but I am interested in pressure point and acupressure fighting.
I have heard a lot about George Dillman and Earle Montaigue. I was just wondering if Dillman's seminars and training or training under Montaigue would be a good choice.
Both men talk about pressure point and acupuncture techniques and I was wondering if they were actually valid sources?

M.C. Busman
10th April 2001, 19:13
Dillman and Montaigue both base their pressure point theory on the old Chinese meridian system. To be honest, there are better books out there by people who have backgrounds in medicine and science. Pat McCarthy's site has some terrific refs, my personal favorite is a series of small, unadorned books by a fellow named Bruce Everett Miller. Off the top of my head, I believe he's a physician's Assistant (I think this takes 4 years and includes a lot of anatomy). His approach is practical and does away with a lot of the superstitious mumbo jumbo people are making a fortune off of selling. The information is practical and not only explains why things work, but why some other theories DON'T make sense. There are a few other good schools of though out there too. I think Rick Moneymaker has decent materials, and I hope I'm thinking of the right guy when I say Vince Morris (New Zealand? Oz? help...).

Folks say Dillman is effective. I've watched his takes and wasn't overly impressed--you hit someone in <b>any</b> 2 nerve centers at the same time or 1 right after another and you're gonna put the nervous system into shock (dizzyness, falling down, confusion, etc, you've basically overloaded it). I lost respect for Dillman 20 years ago when he told everyone he'd been given secret scrolls from a teacher in Okinawa that gave the hidden (not hi-den) locations of special points and HOW to hit 'em to insure maximum damage. The teacher was Hohan <u>Soken</u>, and the "scrolls" were xeroxed pressure point handouts in Japanese and English given out to all of his students. Dillman incidentally, was never a student of Soken's, although he stood with the gentleman master for a photo at least one time (he has lots of photos of himself with interesting people) and either told or implied to many folks for a period of time that he had been a private disciple. When folks began to catch on to this (esp. Soken's real students in the US), Dillman simply began saying that he has studied with an "Okinawan Master" who had taken him as a special disciple, and refused to name the man because he had so much respect for him (if you gave him a blank look, he'd say this was an Okinawa tradition. I think Seiyu Oyata tried the same thing for a time before someone else spilled the beans that he'd studied with a Motobu Ryu teacher and some other second generation people). Personal disgust over this aside (and more than a little tee-hee'ing), Dillman has worked very had to develop his TCM based theory.

Folks also say great things about Montaigue. I've read his books and been impressed more by his sensible (for the most part) statements than any specific theory he's taught. I suspect that the term Dim Mak is simply an intelligent ploy to sell more books (hey, anything to get us to learn something, huh?). Why learn how to defeat your opponents when you can Dim Mak 'em?!! If you're hardcore into TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine), Montaigue's two big volumes are great. If you haven't already memorized all the Meridians and points, are not familiar with TCM and don't plan on becoming so, it is somewhat confusing and very slow going, not to mention expensive!

Personally I have found the best way to learn about pressure points and how to effect them is 1. buy a good anatomy textbook, one that shows a complete disection. 2. if possible, take an anatomy class (medical, not art). 3. read books on physics and introductory neurology/neurobiology--it's all chemical. 4. Find a good science-based teacher who promotes practicality 5. DON'T get discouraged. everything good somes with time, work, and sincerity. Your own efforts make the biggest difference in what you'll end up learning.

Hey, if a working class slob like me can do it, anyone can.

Take Care All,

Chuck Munyon
14th April 2001, 02:06
M.C.
Do you have a URL for Pat McCarthy's web site? I'd really like to look into some of those books you mentioned, especially the ones grounded in more practical anatomy.

regards,
Chuck

M.C. Busman
1st May 2001, 05:55
McCarthy's website includes some good links to true dim mak research sites, but I don't remember if they're on the public portion or the members only forum.

McCarthy's International Ryukyu Karate Research:

http://www.society.webcentral.com.au/

Bruce Everett Miller is the fellow who cites some fascinating medical texts in his self published books, all of which I'd recommend:

http://www.cloudnet.com/~bemiller/

His books, like an igloo, are plain on the outside, chewy on the inside. Not as pretty as some of the big books which say they'll teach you Dim Mak, but they provide real, useful information which he can back up for the most part, with science. Graphics of anatomy provided in books.

Some of the sources he's cited afor instance in his book <u>Poinson Hands: Techniques, Truth, & Reasons</u>, are from the Journal of Physiology, Annals of the Royal College of surgeons, Research status of Spinal Manipulative Therapy, Brain Research, Journal of Neurophysiology, Japanese Journal of Physiology, and so on.

I think that in this day and age we probably have more to gain from modern research than many teachers (who have trouble <b>Understanding</b> literature describing modern physiological research due to the fact they don't have medical backgrounds and don't want to bother teaching themselves) would like to admit.

It is nice to be able to understand texts like the <u>Bubishi</u>, the <u>My Yea Do Bo Tong Ji</u>, and early Chinese medical and religious texts, but it is a <font color=red>terrible mistake</font> to take these early efforts as gospel which dare not be challenged. Appreciating old bicycles doesn't mean you can't take the bus to work!

And when I get my big color anatomy back from the buddy I loaned it to, I'll post the bib info on that here, too.