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Sam
6th April 2001, 10:58
Hi,

I'm hoping you can help me with a real problem I am having with my groundwork.

Whenever I get caught in a hold, I am unable to escape and I cannot even bear it for long because I cannot breathe if there is enough weight on my chest.

I know it is hard to breathe when somebody is on your chest, but even people a lot lighter than I are causing me real problems. It is much worse than having a good choke put on becuase I can't even keep air in my lungs.

For the next day my chest feels weird and it is painful to try and take a full breath. After about 24hrs, this seems to go away.
It seems to happen every session and I was wondering if there is anything I can do about it? I am now developing a phobia of groundwork which I'm sure is not good.

Any advice greatly appreciated........

Kit LeBlanc
6th April 2001, 15:30
Sam,

First off, you might be injured, you may wanna have a chest X-ray done. Pulled intercostals, for example, are extremely painful (though I don't think it would go away in 24 hours) or their might be another problem. If not, see below.

Mentally:

Just relax. I do BJJ/submission, and I noticed that when I first started, and when many, many of the new people I see start, they panic when they are on the ground, on the bottom. No one wants some big hairy dude's chest or arse on their own chest or face, hence the full-strength, "OHMIGOD get him OFFA ME!" straight-arm pushes which serve only to sap your strength. Since they don't work, they also make you panic more, and with panic the breath rises in you chest, becomes more shallow and you may even start to hyperventilate. Not good. Relax.

Technically, try this:

Don't lie with your back on the floor. You need to curl up (ebi- shrimp exercise) your hips toward your opponent. That way you are lying on or almost on your side with him on top, and the pressure to your chest and diaphragm will be relieved somewhat. Be careful that you don't turn too far. This ebi will also serve to place your legs in a better position to secure a guard, your second step for defense in such a situation.

You will often get stuck in positions where your face is being smothered, or he has your head wrapped and is sitting on your chest but he doesn't have the submission yet. Take a second, consciously control your breathing, and think about how you can free your head or even just your nose or mouth so you can get some air in.

Last...you needn't worry. If all else fails, just tap. That is a built in safety mechanism.

Kit

Stephenjudoka
6th April 2001, 16:44
Hi Sam,

The chest should be a well muscled area. I suggest you try bench pressing to build your chest muscles up.
It worked for me.

I agree with Kit - think about having your chest area checked out by a Dr.

Stephen Sweetlove

efb8th
6th April 2001, 16:44
Hi, Sam.

You might try to change your method of breathing from chest or lung to abdominal breathing. When you are in a crushing pin, do not try to fill your lungs; instead try to expand your abdomen. Try to keep an image of inhaling down your spine in your mind, and filling a ball in your lower abdomen on the in breath. Exhaling, keep an image of breathing out through your chest, so a complete breath begins at the top of your mouth, travels down your spine, turns the corner at your lower abdomen, rises toward your mouth through your chest, and exits from the bottom of your mouth.

Keep your breathing slow and continuous.

I hope this helps,

MarkF
7th April 2001, 06:39
You have just received advice from people I know to have the experience so that there isn't much else to say. If caught in a position and you realize it is cinched well, stop, relax and breathe normally, just momentarily. If you can master the basics of breathing in and out, centering, and relaxing, the other will come. It may seem that this is taking a lot of time, but what you are really doing is finding the weak link. There is always a weak link. Breathing in and out is probably the first thing which suffers when in a suffocating hold.

Breathing normally isn't necessarily an involuntary reaction, we do what the situation calls for and usually, it is panic. Working on this alone can increase the chance of escape tremendously. Don't struggle right away. This too is a reflex which can be changed to another conditioned response. Look to where you can sneak a good breathe and turn in that direction.

It is the same for all katami waza, shime, joint locks, etc. There is technique in escaping, as there is in maintaining a pin. It takes practice.
*****

All that aside, a checkup which includes an ECG, an echo cardiogram, perhpas a CT scan (Computed Tomography or Magnetic Resonance Imaging) probably should be done. I'm a severe claustraphobic so this could be the cause of your problem. I had all the test around at the time, and I felt better in that I could work on the mental aspect of relaxation in a time when it seems impossible.

Start by writing down your symptoms. This will help determine whether it happens only while training, or whether it happens in other situations. We do things sometimes we are not aware of.

Next to that, while in a pin, work on creating space. Space is a friend and it doesn't have to be much to get that smothering feeling from such holds as kata gatame, kamishihogatame. Work on one at a time. Keep your mind empty of everything except creating space or "breathing room."

If you are a claustraphobic, it isn't the end of the world. I overcame it to a degree, but still it isn't fun. You must realize that you are not being hurt, only frightened.
*****

Have the checkup and when they don't find anything organic which causes it, then you will know what you need to do, and perhaps help to center yourself. Above all, what Kit said, tap out.

Mark