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View Full Version : Is it the master or the pupil .. .glaassoppper !



Rob
7th April 2001, 08:22
Hi all..

There have been a number of references in previous posts here to what can be achieved by Olympic standard athletes or the learning curve of the 'old masters'.

I am in the slightly unusual (for me) position of being able to comment with some degree of knowledge on this.. I don't actually know any old samurai masters but my father did coach a number of athletes, two of whom competed for their countries at the Olympics and one of whom held the world record for the marathon for a time.

Sooo I asked him about coaching etc and he basically said there are two differences between the 'wannabe's and the 'made it's'.

1) Ability, the total potential that your body posses due to genetic and environmental factors... if ya ain't got it , ya aint got it.

2) Desire. How badly do you want it. Olympic athletes almost without exception are now full time athletes. Those that aren't devote that vast majority of their 'free' time to their sport. I have met through my father a number of high level athletes and most of them are incredibly focussed on their sport, it really is their 'life' in a way that many people who talk about budo and following the 'way' can only dream about.

My point being that, the Samurai knew if they didn't study and practice they were quite likely to die ! Modern Olympic athletes have nothing short of a obssessive desire for victory. Whilst clearly a better standard of teaching is or was vital for both of these groups it is the level of motivation that distinguishes them from ordinary guys.

Having said that my father did point out that whilst there has been some improvement in athletes potential due to better nutrition etc the massive improvements in athletics times, distances achieved etc are down to a combination of new technology: tracks, shoes, kit etc and a much more scientific approach to coaching.

Personally I like the slightly more mystical approach, I like being forced to work things out for myself and I enjoy helping my students experience the feeling of flowing like water.

On the other hand if I've moved my left foot instead of my right I want someone to tell me that, not to "be more at one with the oneness that is all ".

As ever just my rambling (but for once slight better informed than usual - thanks Dad!) thoughts.

Stevo
7th April 2001, 09:42
Hi Rob,

Interesting post.

You mentioned that "if you ain't got it, you ain't got it. While, this might be true for many sports, it doesn't necessarily apply for martial arts.

The beauty about martial arts is the huge variety of styles and arts that you can choose from. This allows people to choose techniques that suit their particular body form and ability.

I agree that, as with other top-level athletes, martial artists have to stay focussed. However, there is more to following the "way" of martial arts than there is in many sports.

Most modern sports emphasise that you have to beat your opponent and win at all costs. In martial arts, the focus is firstly on correct character development, and secondly on "not losing". There's a big difference between the two approaches! :smilejapa

Joseph Svinth
7th April 2001, 12:05
Yes, anybody can do martial arts. And anyone can run a mile or play golf. But not everyone can run the mile in under 3:50 or consistently come in below par.

Be that as it may, why is it that so many of the ones who definitely haven't got it are Super-Duper Grandmaster Sokeys, and brag on their websites of having 27 degrees of black belt? Or is the Ego the character that martial arts develop? (The pre-WWII Japanese used to complain about the egotism in sword arts, so it is possible.)

Chris from CT
7th April 2001, 16:52
Originally posted by Stevo


You mentioned that "if you ain't got it, you ain't got it." While, this might be true for many sports, it doesn't necessarily apply for martial arts.

The beauty about martial arts is the huge variety of styles and arts that you can choose from. This allows people to choose techniques that suit their particular body form and ability.



I totally agree, Steve.

Another point is that, for as many different martial art styles there are even more teachers, which have their own way of teaching. This can make it easier or harder for the student. Coaching is very much the same. I work at a YMCA in Connecticut and I have seen many coaches (some good and some not so good). :)

People learn in different ways. Coaches/Teachers have to try and figure out what is the best way to teach each individual pupil. I agree with Steve in saying that I'm not absolutely sure that, "if you ain't got it, you ain't got it." I have seen excellent coaches/teachers make very little progress with certain individuals and then when the pupil switches to a different coach/teacher, great strides are made. This is not saying the first coach/teacher was bad, just showing that teachers have different ways of teaching as do pupils have different ways for learning.

For those interested, there is a good book called "Martial Arts Teachers on Teaching" by Carol Wiley which has given me some new ways to look at teaching. The book is acually 26 essays from different style martial art Instructors.

Take care :)

Rob
7th April 2001, 18:15
OK firstly apologies until I checked back today I didn't realise that I'd clicked on new thread and not reply.. the posting was supposed to go in the already existing threat about over mystification etc..

Secondly my use of "If ya aint got it, ya aint got it " was specifically aimed at the Olympic level athlete. Where, as Joe has already pointed out, you can train all you like, but if you don't have the potential within your body then you will never be able to run a 3.40 mile.

One of the reasons I dislike sports and love the martial arts are because all of the goals are internal.. it's about wanting to get better but also about enjoying the training.

I can only speak for myself but my aim is to just get better, to keep training and at the moment to keep teaching.. I don't have an Olympic medal to strive for but then because I don't have a set goal I never reach it and have to worry about what comes next.

I quite agree that different coaches have different techniques and that different people respond to them well err differently.

Once again my apologies for starting a new thread rather than contributing to an already interesting one.