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Bjørn Olav
9th April 2001, 09:20
Hello good people,

Some few week's ago I finished Soho Takuan's The Unfettered mind, a book that really had a great inpack on me. I have tried to find his other book, unmovable wisdom, but that on appers out of print. I have taken an intressed in Zen and buddisme the last few months, and I would like to increase my knowlede of this topics, especially on Zen. Is there anybody who can recommend me some good book's to get started? Any help would be greatly appriciated!

Kind regards,
Bjørn Olav Monsen

Yamantaka
9th April 2001, 10:54
Originally posted by Bjørn Olav
Hello good people,

Some few week's ago I finished Soho Takuan's The Unfettered mind, a book that really had a great inpack on me. I have tried to find his other book, unmovable wisdom, but that on appers out of print. I have taken an intressed in Zen and buddisme the last few months, and I would like to increase my knowlede of this topics, especially on Zen. Is there anybody who can recommend me some good book's to get started? Any help would be greatly appriciated!

Kind regards,
Bjørn Olav Monsen

YAMANTAKA : For general information on Zen :
http://www.google.com/search?q=Zen&btnG=Google+Search
To look for Takuan's other book, search at :
www.bn.com (Out-of-Print section) and
www.abebooks.com
Good hunting

Cameron Wheeler
10th April 2001, 02:27
Unfetered mind is a fantastic book, I havn't read one, for me in perticular, so profound in the Zen and Fudosin philosophies.

Good books that I can recomend are
1 Hagakure (about samurai philosophy)
2 Three Masters (about Kano, Ushiba and Funikoshi)
3 book of 5 rings (nuf said)
4 Art of war (again nuf said)

Perticularly to zen and the martial arts
a book called "the zen way to the martial arts" by Taisen Deshimaru. published by PEnguin Arkana

Davemdh
10th April 2001, 03:06
Hows it going? I'd have to say that the best one I've read, to date, isThe Zen way to the martial arts, by Taisen Deshimaru. Not quite as good was Scott Shaws, Samurai Zen. An alright book but he tries too hard. Bushido:The warriors code, by Inazo Nitobe and Ideals of the samurai, Translated by William Scott Wilson, while not about Zen directly do give great insight into the mind set of a race with so much Zen ingrained into the psyche. I hope this helps.

Dave

Ookami
10th April 2001, 04:12
Hi,
I can't remember how much zen content is in it , but I remember that the "Tao of Pooh" was not only a good look at the ways of Pooh Bear but it as well was a good look at different philosophies. It broke them down into basic terms.
I also have a book called "Zen in the Martial Arts" by Joe Hyams. It was ok, mostly small stories about himself and the people he trained with (including Bruce Lee) and their different philosophies. Many of them were based in zen. Good light reading.
I know this is a Japanese forum but Bruce Lee was as well as a very good martial artist, he was as well a great philosopher. Anyone of his books about philosophy is worth the read.
They maybe not exactly be what your looking for but give them a shot!

S.Bree Easter
"Power of the mind is infinite while brawn is limited"
-Koichi Tohei

Scott
10th April 2001, 05:07
Bjorn,


I have been a student of Zen for over 25 years, although I have never participated in formal training. I am too independent for that. Following are a number of books I have found informative. The first two were the most valuable in forming my understanding of Zen.



1) “The Way of Zen”, by Alan Watts. My edition is nearly 20 years old. It was published by Vintage Books. This is an excellent primer on Zen. Alan Watts has an easy, informal writing style. This book is written for those who have little knowledge of Zen and is very informative. Alan provides a western mind’s perspective on the practice of Zen. He has also published a book entitled, “Tao, The Watercourse Way” A primer on Taoism, another excellent introduction to a perspective (not religion) on life, that has historical ties to Zen. Alan discusses the Zen/Taoist connection in, “The Way of Zen”.

2) “The Diamond Sutra & The Sutra of Hui-Neng”, translated by A. F. Price and Wong Mou-lam, published by Shambhala Publications Inc. The “Diamond Sutra” section is a well known text from India and considered, historically speaking, a must read for a clear understanding and study of Zen. I personally have found in it little to offer in my growth, however, I consider “The Sutra of Hui-Neng” my personal bible. After you have gained a basic understanding of Zen this Sutra should supply you with years of study, clarification of questions and and inspiration. Hui-Neng was the 6th patriarch of Zen in line from Bodhidharma. Bodhidharma is considered to be the originator of Zen in China. I have found this book to be invaluable to my understanding and growth in Zen. To my knowledge you cannot get an older treatise on Zen thought and as a Patriarch in direct line from Bodhidharma I consider him my last authority on questions pertaining to the Zen perspective.

3) “The Sword of No-Sword-Life Of The Master Warrior Tesshu”, By John Stevens, published by Shambhala Publications Inc. This is a biography of a master swordsman who also became a Zen master. It details his personal struggles for enlightenment and his accomplishments following his enlightenment.

4) “Three Zen Masters”, by John Stevens, published by Kodansha International. Short biographies on the Japanese Zen masters Ikkyu, Hakuin and Ryokan.

5) “Crazy Clouds-Zen Radicals, Rebels & Reformers”, by Perle Besserman and Manfred Steger, published by Shambhala Publications Inc. Another series of short biographies of noted Zen masters.

6) Almost anything by D. T. Suzuki. Suzuki tends towards a more erudite style of writing. He has written quite a number of books that helped to popularize Zen in the west.

I hope these books can be of some benefit to your study. They have benefited me. Welcome to the Zen perspective.

Sincerely,

Bjørn Olav
10th April 2001, 06:30
A most sincer thank you to all the people who took the time to help me with my questions. I look very much forward to reading true many of the book's recommended to me here!

Kind regards,
Bjørn Olav Monsen

Okami
10th April 2001, 11:43
I agree 100% with Scott...

Some additional picks by me:

Fromm, Suzuki and de Martino - Zen Buddhism and Psychoanalysis

I also heavily recommend the "Rinzai Roku" and the collected anegdotes of Bankei.

Also, take a look at this thread:

http://204.95.207.136/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=5489

Regards,

Ookami.

mikes
11th April 2001, 03:41
Shunryu Suzuki (different than DT) does some good stuff. His "Zen Mind, Beginners Mind" is often the most recommended newbie Zen book. His biography "Crooked Cucumber" is a good read too.

Phillip Kapleau's "Three Pillars of Zen" is a very informative book, but some say it is a bit dated.

For general Buddhism (Theravada) Rahula Walpola's "What The Buddha Taught" is IMHO essential. It could be dry reading for some, but it help you understand the fundamental concepts behind Buddhism. Where it all began.

You might also try the site:
http://www.ciolek.com/WWWVL-Zen.html

fury
13th April 2001, 08:14
I have a couple of recommendations:

Zen in the Art of Archery by Eugen Herrigel
ISBN 0-375-70509-0

and

Zen Training: Methods and Philosophy by Katsuki Sekida
ISBN 0-8348-0114-0

Both good books.

I would avoid anything by D.T. Suzuki until you have read some 'simpler' texts by other authors as Mr. Suzuki is quite wordy even though there is 'nothing to be said about Zen'.

D.T. Suzuki's writings are very good, but are confusing given their length and depth.

Also, I would encourage you to seek out a mentor to help you with your studies, an objective viewpoint always helps!

fowlerl
13th April 2001, 13:53
In the edition: _The Unfettered Mind: Writings of the Zen Master to the Sword Master_, trans by William Scott Wilson (Tokyo: Kodansha International, 1986) [ISBN: 0-87011-851-X) there are three sections: "The Mysterious Record of Immovable Wisdom," " The Clear Sound of Jewels," and "Annals of the Sword Tiai." The cost of the book was under $10 US.

You can also go to an electronic version, for research purposes:

www.lfowler.org/electronic_texts

LFowler

Gil Gillespie
14th April 2001, 06:13
Yo Fowler NICE BANNER! How do you computer guys do that stuff?

Ok first, "to talk of zen without sitting (meditating) is to talk of bullfighting without being in the ring." That's a given. I never could meditate. I always got derailed by girls and basketball. I know------makyo (illusions), didn't matter, I couldn't stick. Now that I've totally invalidated the following I have to add a couple priceless works.

"The Little Zen Companion." Wore mine out keeping it in the truck for red lights. Memorable blurbs like "How can you think and hit at the same time?"---Yogi Berra. Plus above on bullfighting.

"Zen and The Ways" by Trevor Leggett, a classic British gentleman who lived for years in Japan, deeply molded by both judo and zen. We lost him recently. Another unfillable empty chair. . .

"Zen Flesh, Zen Bones."

My personal dogeared beat up favorite of 25 years traveling is "Zen Art for Meditation" by Stewart Holmes & Chimyo Horioka (Tuttle), a slim little 5 by 8 that takes 15 Zen tenets and illustrates them with world masterpieces of Chinese & Japanese sumi-e paintings & timeless haikus by Basho, Buson, Shiki, etc. Each one can give days of thought. A treasure!

P.S. Don't fall for all the criticism of DT Suzuki. He was no outsider. He was an accomplished master who wrote lovingly & beautifully. Judge for yourself. ("Zen and Japanese Culture," et al). As for "Zen and the Martial Arts" avoid Joe Hyams-------it's just a hero worship of Bruce Lee, who deserves it mind you. But it's Deshimaru all the way under that title.

George Ledyard
15th April 2001, 18:35
My long time favorite is a book called the Zen Environment by Marian Mountain. The author was a longtime student of Suzuki Roshi (Zen Mind Beginner's Mind) who whose training led her oustide the standard path for serious students (transmission, teaching, zendo etc) Her book was her effort to leave something for others by way of repaying her teacher. It is a wonderful book and is very much worth reading by anyone who is pursuing a spiritual path not just Zen.

The book is a bit hard to come by as it is out of print but I have found copies in various used book stores.

Walker
18th April 2001, 00:46
but time was I enjoyed many of the above plus
Zen in English Lit. and Oriental Classics by Blyth (your in luck it’s back in print)
Zen and Zen Classics by Frank (abridgement of above)
I really second Marion Mountain for a nice relaxing weekend read with surprising depth.
The Empty Mirror by van de Wetering is along the same lines and quite touching.
And if you want to cheat read The Sound of the One Hand: 281 Zen Koans with Answers by Hoffmann. Should have been a hit with martial artists of the death touch school, “Here, for the first time, the suppressed secrets of the Zen Masters.” Send no money now!
Of course I jest.... don’t I?

Neil Yamamoto
18th April 2001, 01:05
Oh come on Doug you still do plenty of zen.

We were all of a fromless mental state on Sunday morning. Bluming, booze, and budo - a lethal mix guaranteed to leave you in a state of no mind.

Edward Williamson
18th April 2001, 05:53
These are some excellent recommendations. However, to speak of Zen, you must speak of Buddhism as well. Many people wish to practice Zen and ignore the Buddhist aspects of it. It's not to say that one must be Buddhist to practice Zen - just simply acknowledged.

There is a company known as "The Corporate Body of the Buddha Educational Foundation." They are an excellent group of people that donate tens of thousands of books every year. They have several distributors as well. If you are seriously interested in reading some excellent literature, then I highly recommend:

1) Visuddhi Magga (Path of Purification)

This is an EXTREEEEEEEEEEMELY intricate book that is said to be the encyclopaedic work on Buddhism and written by the Arahant Bhadantacariya Buddhaghosa in the year 412 A.D. This is book is so intricate that many say it should not be read by the average lay person but instead with one who has been trained to teach it. The Buddha himself outlined 44 different kinds of meditation. However, most people only practice two different kinds. One focuses on awareness of the breath and the other on any object such as a candle, picture, etc. This book has tons of information and its freely distributed by the above named company.

2) Gems of Buddhist Wisdom

This book is also distributed by the above mentioned company and is kind of a miniature blueprint to Buddhism with a great explanation of the most commonly asked questions about Buddhism today. Just to give you an idea of its popularity - I request about 30 copies of this book every season and give out every single copy within no time. It's probably one of my most favorite books to read.

3) The Eye Never Sleeps

This book is very different from the previous two but might be more of what you're interested in considering what you've already read. The author, Genpo Roshi, is one of the most sought after Zen teachers in the United States. He resides in Salt Lake City, Utah with a very devout following worldwide. His book was the MOST impactful Zen book I've read to date. All you have to do is look at the first few pages to realize that this is a great book. He discusses many topics asked by people today including the ego, humility, attachment, proper meditation and realization. This book can be purchased at any bookstore.

Where there are many books that people enjoy reading, its best to go to your local bookstore in either the New Age section or the Eastern Philosophy section to find the books that people seem to request the most. But I would be careful. Buddhism is the largest scriptual religion in the world. Meaning, there is tons and tons of incorrect information and unfortunately people believe everthing they read. I was fortunate enough to be introduced to Buddhism at a young age and, while having enjoyed much of what I've read, I've found that many things the Buddha himself did not say and is incorrectly taught as Buddhism. That's not to say it's not useful or interesting - just inaccurate according to the original teachings.

The company I referred to earlier can easily be found by going to any search engine and typing in the name of the book you seek. Many different temples and their URL's will have further information on how to obtain the books. Generally, all you have to do is just ask them for however many copies you want and they'll send them to you. It's that easy. The best company I've found thus far for their professionalism in free book distribution is http://www.watyarn.com/Ebooks.htm They have many other books as well that you might enjoy.

anjali,

ed

Bjørn Olav
19th April 2001, 10:35
Wow, I'm really impressed with the amount and quaility of all the replyes there have been to this tread! I have just sent out an order for some of the book's recommended to me, and I hope I will get them before the weekend. I look very much forward to increase my knowledge on this topic, and I am very greatfull for all the good recommondations I have recived here.

Kind regards,
Bjørn Olav

luar
28th April 2001, 15:59
Hi,

I am comming into this discussion quite late and recently I have developed an interest in Zen as a philosophical baisis for my life. I even wrote to the E-Budo administrator and asked for a Zen forum. According to him, there was such a forum but discontinued due to lack of interest but I asked him to reconsider. I personally do not like going to newsgroups because of all of the distractions of advertisements and flamers.

Anyway, my interest has led me to read the following books as a beginner's introduction. They are:

The Idiot's Guide To Zen Living - Gary McClain and Eve Adamson. This book explains in very simple terms what it is and isn't. Although I am not religious (technically Catholic), I apprecitated the simplified explanations how you can still be a Christian, Jew, or Muslim and still have a Zen living.

The Zen of Listening: Mindful Communications in the Age of Distraction - Rebbecca Z. Shafir. I have not finished reading this book but already it has given me insight about how good communication is based on good listening and that how Zen awareness helps facilitate that need.

Zen Guitar - Philip Tosho Sudo. This is the book that got me started on this path. I love to play guitar, it soothes me and gives me meaning. Upon reading this, I developed a new curiosity in Zen and I must admit that my playing is changing more and more.

Your Erronous Zones - Wayne Dyer. Although this is a self-help book, Dyer unapologeticly quotes a lot of Zen. I found this to be quite helpful with a lot of issues I am facing.

Before I say adios, let me give you some background info on me. I practice Shorinji Kempo, a spritiualy based martial art that incorporates Zazen techniques. Shorinji Kempo is a recognized religion on Japan and has it's own branch of Zen called Kongo Zen. So far, I see no major philisophical differences but it's primary focus is on improving the quality of the person by learning to be self-reliant which in turn improves the quality of the society. It also perscribes that you should give 50% of yourself to others while the other 50% should be dedicated to yourself.

When I first joined Shorinji Kempo, I was interested in a mental discipline and fighting skills but not that too much of spiritual development. This style is organized in such a way that it is impossible to seperate the spiritual

RDFittro
28th April 2001, 18:26
As someone who has practiced zen formally in the past might I suggest:

Zen Mind, Beginners Mind - Shunryu Suzuki

The Compass of Zen - Seung Sahn

and anything by Bankei and Hakuin.

Good Luck,

Robert

Joseph Svinth
29th April 2001, 02:25
If you have access to a university library, then for some introductory background to Zen, try some of the sources listed here.

http://www.iijnet.or.jp/iriz/irizhtml/ejbiblio/ejbibind.htm

The texts listed are all in English, but back up a directory or two and you'll find lists of texts in other European languages plus links to primary sources in a variety of East Asian languages.

You also might want to investigate early CE North Indian philosophy, as among other things its ruminations led to the development of the numeral zero in Islam and the concept of the Void in Buddhism. So, to start you on your Way, note that circa 630-645 CE, a Chinese scholar named Hsüan-tsang took 600 Yogacara ("Unifying Practice") texts from North India to China by way of Katmandu. These Indian texts taught that people see life as they believe it to be, not as it is. They also taught that logic was meaningless, that sin and goodness were meaningless, and that both faith and works were meaningless. Instead, meaning was found entirely within one’s own heart and nature. This in turn contributed to the development of Ch'an Buddhism in China and Zen in Japan.

MarkF
29th April 2001, 12:10
If you wish a tie in, or not, definitely read anything by Trevor P. Leggett. His was through judo, but gave the latter up (mostly) in the last half of his life.

I actually was reading some of his works while playing judo and didn't know he was judoka, and that was in the 1960s.

Mark

John Lindsey
29th April 2001, 15:21
Raul did suggest to me having a Zen Forum. We used to have one, but it was as empty as a zem master's mind...

This forum is the result of us down sizing the Zen forum and the Mikkyo forum into one meditation forum. I really don't see a need for a zen forum and I feel we should continue to use this one for now.