makiwara training

[Wong]

Hi there

I was wondering what is good safe age to begin practicing with the makiwara.

Thank You

[Joseph Svinth]

If you are sensible about the training, then mid-teens is probably okay. (The bones in the hands are fairly well-developed by then.)

My own idiosyncratic and very non-traditional viewpoint:

1. Use the board or bag as a training aid rather than as a whacker.

2. Start lightly. Start slowly. Take care of your hands.

3. Use the board or bag develop form. Remember: power comes from the center, not your arms.

4. Feel the rhythm. The board or bag is a percussion instrument. Thus every blow does not have to be a big base drum, and some days a Gene Krupa riff is just plain fun.

5. Finally, try to feel the punch in your big toe rather than your hand.

:)

[gmanry]

I have to agree with the advice on the big toe. I think that many people try to focus through to the heel of the rear foot.

In my opinion this causes a splitting of your force as you try to punch forward you are moving your connecting foot backwards. It is subtle but important for creating powerful and fluid technique.

I would add that you should start by just placing your fist on the makiwara, get into your preferred stance and just press on it with the power for the push originating in your rear foot. Feel all the connections between the joints. If you can feel an uninterrupted "line" of power from your rear foot (emphasis on the toe and inner edge of foot without rolling onto that edge, it flatten out not unlike Sanchin kata), up through your hips, spine, shoulder, elbow and fist, then you have good alignment. When you can make this happen without any small adjustments, then begin to hit the makiwara as Joe stated, slowly and build up. This is how I start my students on the makiwara, and I find it takes forces them to really feel alignment.

Another important point is that you should make impact with the arm extended someplace around 3/4 extension but before full extension. The body drives the first 3/4 of the punch or more and the arm finishes up with the body weight following through. As you get better and learn more about your punching, you will learn that combat conditions do not respect this rule.

Make sure your makiwara has some give or is flexible if you are going to train at high power levels, otherwise you are just doing damage to your hands.

Glenn R. Manry

[Margaret Lo]

If the goal to develop punching power, it may be good to start by strengthening the hands first. It is possible to develop overall hand strength in a child just by having them do certain natural things: hanging from a tree branch for a length of time, or wringing clothes dry for example.

Once hands are strong, makiwara work will supplement hand power but I think the foundation lies in growing strong hands first.

M

[Doug Daulton]

All excellent suggestions!

Joe said ... "Feel it in the big toe."

I agree. Also, try to feel it in the hip (center) .. meaning the drive from the hip should be clean and ever-forward. There should be no "feedback" coming into the hip. As your technique advances try to focus your mind on folding the hip girdle inward ... a confusing idea but once you feel it you'll know what I mean.

Glenn said ... "I would add that you should start by just placing your fist on the makiwara, get into your preferred stance and just press on it with the power for the push originating in your rear foot. "

I also agree. In fact, I would do this ONLY ... for the first 3-6 months. Slowly increase the force as you go. Doing this, you'll develop very clean form via proprioception (muscle memory) and develop strong punching musculature through isometric tension.

The tendency for most folks (men in particular) is to let their ego get involved and start whacking the crap out of the machiwara or the bag. This is the equivalent of trying to bench press 400lbs the first day in the gym.

That's fine until your hands are so swollen and bleeding that you can't train. Beginners see senior people delivering great force to the machiwara ... but they do not see the long hours spent SLOWLY developing it.

IMO, the heavy bag should be the LAST thing you train with. I think this is probably antithetical to most folks. Most think because the bag is soft and theoretically hurts the hands less .. one should start there and build power before moving to the machiwara.

Of the atemi training aids, the bag is the least forgiving .. if done right. It moves and shifts like the human body. So, if you blast away and your technique is poor, one stands a good chance of screwing up your hands, wrists, elbows and shoulders.

People also start with the bag because it moves when hit and this satisfies the ego more than the more stationary machiwara. However, if the bag swings as a solid unit when hit ... you are not hitting it right. When hit well, the bag should fold like a V around the hand/foot. In 3D space, it should not move much. When this happens, one is delivering real power.

The object of punching is not to knock the guy 10 feet away. It is to hit him so hard and well that he crumples where he stands.

Finally ... Margaret suggested some great hand strengthening exercises.

To these I would add the following ... go to Pier 1 Imports and buy some woven grass tablemats or trivets. Cut out a section and roll it in to a tube which fits in your rolled up fist with an inch or so protruding from either side. Carry this around and squeeze it at regular intervals. I did this in my high school days and had a great, solid fist as a result.

Regards,

[Joseph Svinth]

You know what I like? Hand-held bags. The reason is that the holder gets to work on stance and center while the attacker gets to practice technique. Furthermore, the bag is soft enough that you shouldn't hurt yourself on it.

Add a padded wiffle bat to the holder's other hand, and the game becomes downright fun. Adds realism, too, as if you come in without a guard, or leave slowly, you get whacked. :)

[gmanry]

I died laughing when I read your post Joe.

Not because it is a bad idea, but can you imagine a new potential student coming in and watching some "lunatic" with a mitt on one hand and a plastic bat in the other, jumping around and swatting at this other "lunatic" who keeps dodging around trying to hit the mitt?

Lately I have been very conscious of new people who come into the dojo to watch the various classes. I try to put myself in their place and see what they see. It is sometimes very illuminating, and frequently brings a smile and a chuckle.

I will have to try the whiffle bat drill next time I pull out the mitts.

Glenn R. Manry

[Joseph Svinth]

Glenn --

I recently visited a class where a sign said no smiling -- you weren't there to have fun, but to learn to endure. I used to have bosses like that. Took the early retirement, too.

***

Try the drill using only one bag and whacker, because if you let both sides have them, then the folks start using them as sword-and-buckler. That's fun, too, but is a different game.

Some of the football-style shoulder drills work well, too, especially if the problem is getting people to overcome their fear of coming in, or of making physical contact.

You can also use the bag to help the kids practice their side and back falls. How?

1. Stand in cat stance on a mat.
2. Tell the kids to practice their flying sidekicks.
3. Shift your center into the bag without telling them.

Thus they practice side and back falls.

[zach]

Well, got things to add here, I don't have the rank or experience that most of you do; but ive got about 11 years training under my belt, and here's my opinion(s) on makiwara training:

I think the most important thing is to work on your technique itself, which is (imho) generally facilitated by the "pressing" mentioned earlier. Many okinawan master have also mentioned "hitting the makiwara from every angle" Which I think becomes very important later on. On a simliar subject, I feel that for my skill level, on a purely "power" level is as good as it's going to get, what I need to work on now is "internal power", so ive been studying QiGong and paying particular attention to not simply "muscling" my karate technique.

What are peoples opinions and theories on "internal power" in Okinawan styles? I know it's pretty much an accepted thing in Chinese martial arts, and I have trained with one Okinawan stylist who had us do abdominal breathing w/ slow punches etc, much like what you see in some Goju katas. At any rate, after spending much of my training developing power, im beginning to gain more of an appreciation for internal power and also for being able to be soft and hard effectively, mostly due to my current instructor. Any opinions on this?

[gmanry]

Most of the internal power elements in karate that I have worked on come from that particular definition of chi that is really a product of good alignment of the skeletal system and an ability to sink or "root."

It is a product of good relaxation and proprioperception put into fluid action. It is very important.

In my training we were made to do our kata very, very slowly, like taichi training (but of course not tai chi). This is vital in developing the small muscles and training your muscles to be more responsive through a greater range.

This is the flow of chi, but I think most people get carried away with that word.

Go-ju theory in karate (and I am talking more generally here and not specifically about goju ryu) is very important and I think has a lot of parallels to the type of theory in taichi (its all the same really, isn't it?). Funakoshi talks about expansion and contraction, and that is related as well in my opinion.

So, to answer your question, all martial arts should be able to teach you something about this, but if you stop to look at it too long you can get transfixed and stop seeing as a tool and treat it as something other than what it is.

Glenn R. Manry

[zach]

I tend to agree that it's easy to get carried away with that concept and change it into this overly esoteric thing which is too vague to be of use.
Basically for me it's a way of isolating the muscles needed, being relaxed (i have a strong tendency to 'muscle' things and use uneccessary muscular tension), and using only what force is neccessary, being "rooted" has alot to do with this for me. I find the Naihanchi series great for that.
Its funny, I'm learning a version of the Yang long form currently, and I find often that Tai Chi practitioners (sorry if i'm generalizing too much) seem to go to far with the whole Chi thing. To the extent where what theyre doing no longer seems like a martial art, spend to much time concentrating on the "non physical" and it seems to me

[gmanry]

I find just doing down block (gedan barai) in front stance (zenkutsu dachi) is a really good way to generate that alignment feeling from toe to lead side hand. Our zenkutsu is a little less rigid then some schools with a bend in the back knee (a lot more like the Chinese bow stance) and a springiness through the joints, more crouching with a slight forward inclination from the hips.

If you don't do it right your whole balance can be destroyed by just a touch from a partner. This is just a feeling drill, however, and applying it in combat takes on many more dimensions. That drill and having my students push on the wall or makiwara with a reverse punch is where I start people with making these connections. Once they can confidently say they feel what I am describing, then I let them hit targets and start applying power. I find this really makes a difference in early training.

Glenn R. Manry