PDA

View Full Version : "martial arts" Hurst vs HACA



John Lindsey
11th April 2001, 13:11
While in Japan recently, I stumbled across Mr. Hurst's excellent book on the Japanese sword and bow. I bought it on the spot, even though I paid a bit too much for it do to the yen conversion. :)


One thing I found interesting was his claim that the term 'martial art' in the West is based on the translation of the Eastern terms. Ironically, I was recently watching a video of a Western Sword study group called HACA and a fellow on the video stated that the term "martial art" was first used around 1638 (I think) in an English book on fencing.

Anyone have any further details on the history of this term?

BTW, rumor has it that Dr. Hurst wrote an article for a upcoming book which is outlining martial art traditions around the world. I have heard that a good part of this book is dedicated to Japanese arts, with e-budo member Roy Ron also submitting an article for the book.

Karl Friday
11th April 2001, 15:49
Originally posted by John Lindsey
rumor has it that Dr. Hurst wrote an article for a upcoming book which is outlining martial art traditions around the world. I have heard that a good part of this book is dedicated to Japanese arts, with e-budo member Roy Ron also submitting an article for the book.

You're probably thinking of Martial Arts of the World: An Encyclopedia, which is due out sometime this year from Clio-ABC. The principal editor for the project is Tom Green, from down in y'all's neck of the woods--Texas A&M. There are quite a few academic authors involved in this project. On the Japan side, this includes Hurst (Penn), William Bodiford (UCLA), Mikael Adolphson (Harvard), Roy Ron (Hawaii), and yours truly. I haven't seen any of the articles, other than the ones I wrote and an early draft of Will Bodiford's, but I'm expecting it to be a very worthwhile reference book. Watch for it!

carl mcclafferty
11th April 2001, 16:35
Gentlemen:
Thomas Green's book is due out sometime in June. A not so academic, worn out, old cop was also involved in the Japanese side of the book, but probably not as articulately as Dr. Friday's acquaintances. :~)

This has been long in the making and should worth the effort expended by Tom.

Carl McClafferty

Walker
11th April 2001, 20:01
Along the lines of John’s question about martial art there is also the use of the word “defense” (defence, L. defensum, OF. ME. defens) in fencing appearing first (according to Oxford) in Hamlet (1602) “Hee... gaue you such a Masterly report, For art and exercise in your defence; And for your Rapier most especially.” Making self-defense not as passive as is normally assumed. The various fencing texts of the masters being named “Master of Defence” and the like.
1639 Camus’ Moral Felat. - “An excellent Master of defence, with whom no man will fight... for fear of his dexterity.”
So Master and defense and self defense have long usage in English with or without Asian influence.

On Martial Art Oxford cites 1412-20 Lydg. Chron. Troy “Y longeth to manhode... To haunte his bodye in playes marciall.” and 1568 Grafton Chron. II “The king entendyng to see this martiall sport... caused listes royall for the Champions... to be newly erected in West Smithfield in London.”

Walker
11th April 2001, 20:01
The evil board hath double posted,
deleted all and forhead smoted.

Just some guy
11th April 2001, 20:49
Something I always find interesting is that I have been told that the proper German expresion for Martial arts (this refering to non sport martial arts) is des Weg der Krieger or "The way of the warrior". I don't know if this is a modern thing or something old but I find it interesting non the same. As I understand this refers to All forms, European included.

Althaur
11th April 2001, 23:08
The head "dude" for HACA just recently did a sword seminar out here in San Francisco. Topic was the Long Sword. It was really quite interesting. I didn't get to stay for the whole thing, but my sensei, Dale Seago, said the latter portion was even better. There were quite a few similarities(?) to some Japanese systems. I guess good principles really are universal. Anyhoo, if you want to check out their site, it's at www.thehaca.com

Take care and be safe.

johan smits
12th April 2001, 10:53
Another very good site is AEMMA, Academy of European Medieval Martial Arts.
If you go there be sure to take a look at "Flos Duellatorum".

Johan Smits