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Matthew Banks
14th April 2001, 00:31
Hello,

Do you know of any Koryu Jujutsu in the UK, with legitimate lineages.
Im really determined to get involved in the above. I have tried koryu.com but one man was very reluctant to give out any information.


please help any information what so ever would be GREATLY appreciated.



thankyou


Matt Banks

johan smits
15th April 2001, 11:20
Hi Matt,

There is Tenjin Shinyo Ryu; Ryoi Shinto Ryu and Hontai Yoshin Ryu in the Uk.
These are the ones I know of there may be more though.

Since most koryu jujutsu is not taught commercially and rather hard to find in Europe (that includes UK for me) the teachers tend to keep a bit to themselves.
Keep trying and you will succeed. On the other hand if a teacher is unwilling to help you forget about it. Koryu jujutsu is not such a big deal. Is life possible without koryu jujutsu? Yes I believe so.

Best Regards,

Johan Smits

Yamantaka
15th April 2001, 11:31
Originally posted by Matthew Banks
I have tried koryu.com but one man was very reluctant to give out any information.
Matt Banks

YAMANTAKA : That surprises me, Matthew! The "one man" at Koryu Com was possibly Meik Skoss and my experience with him and his lovely wife, Diane, has been exactly the opposite.
They're very helpful and educated people and never failed in giving me correct information. I'm afraid your post might give a wrong impression of them.
With all due respect

Matthew Banks
15th April 2001, 16:49
Originally posted by Yamantaka


YAMANTAKA : That surprises me, Matthew! The "one man" at Koryu Com was possibly Meik Skoss and my experience with him and his lovely wife, Diane, has been exactly the opposite.
They're very helpful and educated people and never failed in giving me correct information. I'm afraid your post might give a wrong impression of them.
With all due respect

I may have made the wrong impression. Im sure he is a nice guy and all. Meik Skoss wasnt rude he just,didnt want to give me any information as he did not know me. Fair enough I suppose. His website continues to be a service to me.

Sorry Meik Skoss for the earlier post. I bet this stops my chances of ever getting any information from other people on the forum.

If anyone can help with some Koryu jujutsu in the uk please contact me. Do you know of any Yamantaka?


Matt Banks

Yamantaka
15th April 2001, 20:18
Originally posted by Matthew Banks
Sorry Meik Skoss for the earlier post. I bet this stops my chances of ever getting any information from other people on the forum.
If anyone can help with some Koryu jujutsu in the uk please contact me. Do you know of any Yamantaka?
Matt Banks

YAMANTAKA : Don't you worry, Matthew! I'm sure we will get a lot of information from our fellow members. No problem!
About your question if I know of any UK Koryu, sorry, I don't. They're small groups and generally do not promote themselves. You may get some information through Kendo groups.
Best

Meik Skoss
15th April 2001, 22:06
Mr. Banks, your apology is sort of back-handed and not very sincere, given the exchange that occurred between us. I *did* give you what little information I had about koryu jujutsu in the U.K.

I also stated that I'm loath to give somebody the names or addresses of people or dojo if 'n when I did not know them, or have an introduction from a person I do know. There's a darned good reason for that, which we have discussed at some length on our website. I presume I'm correct in assuming that you've both read that material *and* understood what we're saying? And why? If not, then give it up -- the koryu just aren't for you.

I did NOT "just [not] want to give you information," and I think it'd be appropriate it if you'd get over yourself on public fora. If/when something doesn't turn out the way you want, there may be very good reasons for that. In this case, bubba, you have definitely stepped in it. You need to get a grip on the realities of budo, which aren't necessarily congruent with your perceived wants and/or needs.

In other words, don't call me. Get on with your search and don't waste my time with this lame bulls--t. Okay?

Michael Becker
16th April 2001, 08:33
Mr Banks

James Shortt teaches Ryoi Shinto Ryu in the UK but I do not know if he is teaching a public class at this time. I suspect he is rather busy in his profession. There is a group in Ireland under him. Their website is here
http://members.aol.com/jujutsuire/ and they invite enquiries, so you may get lucky. James Shortt has a video available ( not instructional ) via Paul Crompton publishers.

Kaze Arashi Ryu
http://www.kar.telinco.co.uk/
I have a friend that visited Kirby Watson and he was very friendly. It isnt koryu, but you may find it suits you.

Hontai Yoshin ryu-scroll down for contact details.
http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum/8136/ .

Takenouchi ryu-c/o 28 Ashburnham Mansions, Chelsea, London, SW10. I cannot remember the name of the gentleman teaching offhand, but he has been teaching some time now.

Tai Jutsu Kai Ass under Fumon Tanaka, 54 Vine St. Kidderminster, Worc's. Tel/Fax 01562 746447. Several ryu taught together, according to the information I have seen. I will leave it to others to argue over this one.

All of the above I have posted because the information is generally available ( hense the website links for most of them ) and the schools have advertised their locations-I make no guarantees regarding the instruction because koryu jujutsu isnt my field of study. Go see for yourself.

I could possibly search out more information, but I am not going to because I'm not the one looking for schools. It is for you to spend the time doing that. A little hard work is good for you.

There are others teaching privately but since they have not advertised their whereabouts then you can assume enquires from those without an introduction are not sought. They can be found with effort-I know someone that has-but dont expect them to accept you even if you do find them.

One final thing. Private conversations or correspondance are best kept that way.

Just some guy
16th April 2001, 13:48
Okay, I haven't heard of that one.

Michael Becker
16th April 2001, 18:50
It is an association, not a style.

I abbreviated the word association-hense 'ass'-my apologies for not putting a full stop after. I thought it would be obvious.

Yamantaka
16th April 2001, 21:02
Originally posted by Michael Becker
It is an association, not a style.


YAMANTAKA : I'm not quite sure but wouldn't "KAI ASSOCIATION" be something like "SENSEI TEACHER"?

Michael Becker
16th April 2001, 22:52
I really wouldnt know, I really dont care-I didnt choose the name, they did. I only posted up the information.

Yamantaka
17th April 2001, 12:15
Originally posted by Michael Becker
I really wouldnt know, I really dont care-I didnt choose the name, they did. I only posted up the information.

YAMANTAKA : I see...Thank you very much for your answer.
Best

Matthew Banks
17th April 2001, 17:17
Originally posted by Yamantaka


YAMANTAKA : I'm not quite sure but wouldn't "KAI ASSOCIATION" be something like "SENSEI TEACHER"?

I have trained in the Tai Jutsu Kai organisation. They had a representitive in Barnstable. They are an organisation that offers Jujutsu Kumite(sport jujutsu) and they have a koryu side also with Soke Fumon. They are also the organisers of the ''grapple and strike'' competions across britain.
Information is gained from their website www.jujutsu.demon.co.uk



Matt Banks

Yamantaka
17th April 2001, 21:11
Originally posted by Matthew Banks
I have trained in the Tai Jutsu Kai organisation. They had a representitive in Barnstable. They are an organisation that offers Jujutsu Kumite(sport jujutsu) and they have a koryu side also with Soke Fumon. They are also the organisers of the ''grapple and strike'' competions across britain.
Information is gained from their website www.jujutsu.demon.co.uk
Matt Banks

YAMANTAKA : Thank you for your information but I wasn't asking about the art or its qualifications. My question concerned only the art's name and whether it (the name, not the art!) was correct or not.
By the way, Jujutsu Kumite do not seem good japanese to me and does not mean "sport jujutsu".
And finally, if this art is new, how can it have a koryu side? and what would be it?
Waiting for your answer

Matthew Banks
17th April 2001, 22:14
Originally posted by Yamantaka


YAMANTAKA : Thank you for your information but I wasn't asking about the art or its qualifications. My question concerned only the art's name and whether it (the name, not the art!) was correct or not.
By the way, Jujutsu Kumite do not seem good japanese to me and does not mean "sport jujutsu".
And finally, if this art is new, how can it have a koryu side? and what would be it?
Waiting for your answer

Hello Yamantaka. The term I used Jujutsu Kumite was the term that organisation uses. Could it mean 'competion jujutsu' if there is such a thing?
I dont think its a new art just a new organisation. If you have time look at the websites I linked earlier, it explains the organisation fully there.



Matt Banks

Matthew Banks
17th April 2001, 22:17
Originally posted by Matthew Banks


Hello Yamantaka. The term I used Jujutsu Kumite was the term that organisation uses. Could it mean 'competion jujutsu' if there is such a thing?
I dont think its a new art just a new organisation. If you have time look at the websites I linked earlier, it explains the organisation fully there.



Matt Banks

woops just checked the link doesnt work try this one


www.jujutsu.co.uk


Matt Banks

Yamantaka
18th April 2001, 10:41
Originally posted by Matthew Banks
woops just checked the link doesnt work try this one
www.jujutsu.co.uk
Matt Banks

YAMANTAKA : Sorry, Matthew, but this thing gets curious and curious...The founding master of Taijutsu Kai, a certain Mr. Iannacoro, "has 25 years of experience in MA AND is the founder of Taijutsu Kai", so it's a Shin Budo, that is, a very new martial art. Not just a new organization, but a MODERN art.
I do not agree with nonsense and "TAI JUTSU ASSOCIATION - JUJUTSU" is absurd, since both words "Tai Jutsu and Ju Jutsu" are common names for the same practice. To use them at the same time is like saying "Soeurs/Sisters"(french and english).
I have some small knowledge but I never heard of either his master (Fumon) or his organization (a samurai school???).
Really sorry but this guy and system seems more and more confused and confusing.
Best regards

George Kohler
18th April 2001, 21:41
Originally posted by Yamantaka
I have some small knowledge but I never heard of either his master (Fumon) or his organization (a samurai school???).

Tanaka Fumon's organization is called Fushi Muso Kai and he teaches Enshin ryu and Kukishin ryu

He studied Honmon Enshin ryu and Koden Enshin ryu under Kobashi Nikkan Masanori and I believed became the next head master of these schools.

There are two branches of Kukishin ryu that Tanaka studied. The first one is called Minaki-den Kukishin ryu bojutsu. He studied this under Minaki Saburoji, who is also the 17th soke of Hontai Yoshin ryu jujutsu. The other branch that he studied is called Tenshin Hyoho Soden Kukishin ryu. He claims that he received headmaster of this school from 3 individulas (Matsumoto Ihei, Kuki Takaharu, Matsubara Kahei).

Here is more info about him http://www.renshin.com/Soke/Soke.html

Yamantaka
19th April 2001, 14:16
Originally posted by George Kohler
Tanaka Fumon's organization is called Fushi Muso Kai and he teaches Enshin ryu and Kukishin ryu

He studied Honmon Enshin ryu and Koden Enshin ryu under Kobashi Nikkan Masanori and I BELIEVED became the next head master of these schools.

There are two branches of Kukishin ryu that Tanaka studied. The first one is called Minaki-den Kukishin ryu bojutsu. He studied this under Minaki Saburoji, who is also the 17th soke of Hontai Yoshin ryu jujutsu. The other branch that he studied is called Tenshin Hyoho Soden Kukishin ryu. HE CLAIMS that he received headmaster of this school from 3 individulas (Matsumoto Ihei, Kuki Takaharu, Matsubara Kahei).

Here is more info about him http://www.renshin.com/Soke/Soke.html

YAMANTAKA : Thank you very much, George San, for your information. I see that you make some reservations
(capitalized above) but I will reserve my opinion for a time when I get more research.
Anyway, thanks again