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Billy
19th April 2001, 10:15
There's been a lot of discussion concerning the request of credentials of prospective teachers. I'd like to turn this issue over, look at it from a different perspective and ask for opinions.

Does anyone, when receiving a student who professes rank and background in the art, inquire with their former teacher(s) as to the person's disposition, rank, etc.?

It's usually a no-brainer to tell if the person has some experience, but teaching methods vary as do requirements for rank promotion. This makes it hard to tell if the individual actually possesses the rank they claim. Too, the story of "I paid but never received that (or those) certificate(s)" is far from unique and is in many instances true.

I would be interested in hearing how others address this sort of issue. For example: If someone comes in purporting to be ranked as 3rd kyu but falls below your expectations - then asks you to help him/her obtain their missing certificates.

I do realize that, by providing them with a source of information, an open discussion on a topic such as this could set the table for board-jumpers. Hopefully the information presented will not be used for that purpose.

Thanks in advance,

Billy Shearer
Bujinkan Zenka Dojo

George Ledyard
20th April 2001, 19:44
I don't question an incoming student's rank. They get to keep whatever rank they received from their previous teacher. They simply need to master the technical requirements of our school for thqat rank before they test again. Depending where the came from that might take quite a while.

In 12 years no one has come in and tried to lie about their Aikido ranks. I suspect that inflating ones accomplishments would be disastrous for someone in our school as my existing students would have the expectation that they could train at a level that matched their rank. Embarassing if not downright dangerous to do. So I ahve never had the need to question nay student's claims about their rank.

Actually i did have on student admit that he had lied about his experience when he first came in. I had looked at him and immediately felt that he didn't move like a typical beginner. I asked him about what he done before and he said nothing. Later he admitted that he had a fourth dan in karate but hadn't weanted to bias anyone against him since at manyt Aikido schools student of other martial arts are discriminated against by the tsudents who feel threatened by experience that doesn't match their own.

gmanry
20th April 2001, 21:04
I can understand the feelings of your student who lied about his previous experience.

I have had the worst and best experiences with this phenomenon. At the last dojo at which I trained all the yudansha were very threatened by my previous experience. This is funny because I am not a very threatening person. However, I take my training seriously. I put on a white belt, down from 3rd dan with out hesitation.

At my current dojo, I can honestly say that my experience there has been very positive with a few fleeting exceptions in the beginning. I again accepted 10th kyu, down from ni and san dan rankings in other arts and 18 years of daily martial arts experience.

I have been invited to teach my other disciplines to help with dojo expenses, and I find I have a very good and positive learning environment in which to grow. We all learn from each others experience and it is a very beneficial place to study.

In the past, I have always asked people to start at the beginning unless they have been in an art that is incredibly similar to my own. Of course, for those who are very skilled in other arts, quicker progress is typically the rule.

The big thing when entering a new art with extensive experience in another is to focus on their basics. Supposedly, you have learned how to learn. Everything falls into place over time. Don't get hung up on differences and play on the similarities so that you can integrate the new movements more quickly. It seems to work for me.

When I teach people from other arts, I try to draw lines of similarity if I am familiar with their arts movement patterns. This has helped a lot of transfer students.

Glenn R. Manry

tetsu
11th June 2001, 16:17
It's very difficult when people come in
from different styles or leave and enter
a different style.

I'd like to crosstrain at an area Aikido club
or maybe a local Genbukan dojo, but there are
alot of issues involved in that with my current
dojo and even worse at the potential new school.

I'm a 6ft 225lb non-sport karateka. I even
intimidated people when I first started at
my karate school just due to my physical
presence.

I've seen friends who've moved away from our dojo
have alot of problems adjusting into other
striking art schools. It's also often hard for
advanced students of other striking arts to
fit in with our group. If they are very strong
they tend to threaten the weaker students and
even worse, if they are weak they are held up to
a harsh standard and end up scorned.

Frankly, if I go train somewhere else, I'm not
sure if I'd want to advertise my training either.

Johnny Tetsu

larsen_huw
13th June 2001, 20:47
I've only ever studied 2 styles of karate. When i left my 1st stlye for my second style i decided the best policy was to go into the new club with an open mind and a closed mouth.

I dropped back to 10th Kyu, and told my sensei that while i had some experience, i'd prefer to start at the bottom and work my way up.

They say a clever man learns from his mistakes, but a very clever man learns from someone elses. In this case i was lucky enough to have an example of what not to do. A student came along to my first dojo, saying he was x kyu in y style and demanded to wear his old belt. My sensei told him that if he earnt it, he was more than welcome to wear it, but until then the rule was all new students were white belt, regardless of previous experience. He wasn't happy, but accepted it. He then spent the whole lesson saying things like "We didn't do it that way in my old style" and "Surely it's better to do it this way?". Needless to say, he was told about dojo manners at the end of the lesson, and was never seen again.

To borrow a quote from my grandmother, "You have two ears, but only one mouth."

KenpoKev
14th June 2001, 17:31
My program allows for drop-ins, so I see a good number of folks from other local schools. I try and make sure they feel welcome and make sure they leave the session with something new. If a person decides that they wish to become an active member, they must start at the beginning. The exception is Dan ranks. All dan ranks are honored at their rank, however I will not allow them to teach unless I have been able to observe them for sometime and inquired about their background.

I am sure some have misled me, as when I inquired about specifics to contact their former instructors, I was put off and they did not return.

We are extremely fortunate in this community as virtually every instructor knows each other and a large majority get together monthly for an instructors class the is put on by ATAMA. If someone claims to have trained at another school, a quick email or call sets the record straight.

It has been my experience that folks with prior training advance very quickly, as was pointed out before, they've learned how to learn and the fundamentals in most arts are common.

My 3 most advanced students have prior training or law enforcement experience.

Be Well,

IchiRiKen1
15th June 2001, 01:15
When someone new comes into my class, because we have no uniform requirements until the first test, they can wear whatever they please.

It is kind of expected, though never told to them directly, that they should endeavor to obtain a regular uniform setup if they plan to continue in our school.

Once they test, however, they wear what we wear, and they only wear what rank they have earned with us.

I have to agree that when they genuinely have considerable experience in something else, their development is accelerated, and they progress much more quickly than others. It is easy to see, though, the "dojo jumpers" that have trained one place for 3 months, another place for 6 months, etc., both by their talk and their skills. My favorites are the ones that brag about how they beat their last teacher while sparring or some such thing...