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Stephenjudoka
19th April 2001, 11:06
Can some one answer my question ?.

I keep seeing adverts and articles on BJJ. Is there really such a thing.
All Ju Jutsu/ Ju Jitsu derived from Japan. Should not BJJ be called just Ju Jitsu.

This would be the same for Judo - Judo is called Judo where ever it is practised. Its not called English Judo.
Boxing is called boxing, not American boxing.

Brazil may have its own fighting styles but Ju Jitsu was not one of them.

Is BJJ just a very good marketing name.

If I am wrong I am sorry to all exponents of BJJ but I would like to know the answer.

Stephen Sweetlove

yamatodamashii
19th April 2001, 12:49
Well, "jujutsu" is not a style, per se. Jujutsu comes in many "flavors", called "ryu". Judo was originally called "Kano ryu jujutsu".
Therefore, "Brazilian jiu jitsu" should be seen as simply the "ryu name" for the style of jujutsu which developed in Brazil (and is, coincidentally, largely based on judo).

johan smits
19th April 2001, 14:15
Actually this comes very close to the subject of "westernized jujutsu" and the identity or lack of identity of the art. Brazilian jujutsu stands for jujutsu as it is developed and practised in Brazil. It becomes very popular and widespread and to distinguish it from other jujutsu it is called Brazilian. Why did Kano call his jujutsu Kano ryu and not Tenjin Shinyo Ryu, same reason I guess.

Best Regards,

Johan Smits

Yamantaka
19th April 2001, 15:12
Originally posted by Stephenjudoka
Can some one answer my question ?
I keep seeing adverts and articles on BJJ. Is there really such a thing.
All Ju Jutsu/ Ju Jitsu derived from Japan. Should not BJJ be called just Ju Jitsu.
This would be the same for Judo - Judo is called Judo where ever it is practised. Its not called English Judo.
Boxing is called boxing, not American boxing.
Brazil may have its own fighting styles but Ju Jitsu was not one of them.
Is BJJ just a very good marketing name.
If I am wrong I am sorry to all exponents of BJJ but I would like to know the answer.
Stephen Sweetlove

YAMANTAKA : When Mitsuyo Maeda (a Kodokan man with barely no knowledge of traditional Jujutsu), came to Brazil, in the 1920's, the name judo wasn't very widespread. Maeda used to call it Kano Ryu Jujutsu. As Jujutsu is pronounced something like "Djiu Djitsu", the Gracies began to use the misspelling "JIU-JITSU". It might better be called "GRACIE JUDO", since its source is mainly Judo's newaza.
Anyway, Gracie Jujutsu or Brazilian Jujutsu was just called Jiu-Jitsu, until the 90's, with its internationalization. Perceiving then the differences between them and other japanese jujutsu styles (non-existent in Brazil, at that time), they apparently decided to distinguish them from the others by using the name Gracie jujutsu or Brazilian jujutsu.
As long as I know, that's the story.

John Bennett
19th April 2001, 16:10
No! There's no such thing as BJJ.

BJJ and Judo are the exact same thing.

Players from any BJJ school are just as likely to win Olympic gold as from any Judo school.

If you go to a BJJ school you will learn the exact same thing as if you went to a Judo school.

If you have a black belt in Judo you also have a black belt in BJJ.

BJJ is just a grand marketing ploy. The explosion of interest in the grappling arts over the last 7 years is totally the result of USJI. They had been waiting since WWII for the right market conditions to launch their covert nation-wide plan to steal students from all the Taekwondo and Kung Fu schools.

Kit LeBlanc
19th April 2001, 17:24
John,

Man, shhhhhh...... you are giving away too much information, we are not supposed to let THEM know.....


Kit

19th April 2001, 19:03
BJJ and Judo are different in some ways.

Judo specializes in standing throws and pins on the ground.

Bjj specializes in guardwork and groundfighting in general.

Most BJJer's cannot hang with a Judoka standing up.

Most Judoka cannot hang with BJJer's on the ground.

These statements are generalized of course and there are ALWAYS exceptions.

This has been my experience and my observation.


Billy Bob

Matthew Banks
23rd April 2001, 13:46
Originally posted by Yamantaka


YAMANTAKA : When Mitsuyo Maeda (a Kodokan man with barely no knowledge of traditional Jujutsu), came to Brazil, in the 1920's, the name judo wasn't very widespread. Maeda used to call it Kano Ryu Jujutsu. As Jujutsu is pronounced something like "Djiu Djitsu", the Gracies began to use the misspelling "JIU-JITSU". It might better be called "GRACIE JUDO", since its source is mainly Judo's newaza.
Anyway, Gracie Jujutsu or Brazilian Jujutsu was just called Jiu-Jitsu, until the 90's, with its internationalization. Perceiving then the differences between them and other japanese jujutsu styles (non-existent in Brazil, at that time), they apparently decided to distinguish them from the others by using the name Gracie jujutsu or Brazilian jujutsu.
As long as I know, that's the story.


What makes me laugh is that I know of one jujutsu club who changed the spelling on the leaflets he gives out to ''jiu jitsu '' in the hope of getting more students. (ha ha). Ive heard from certain sources that the term jiu jitsu was used as it sounded revolutionary. It sounded more exotice than gracie style judo. Jiu jitsu made it seem like there were more ancient tecniques in it, which were more brutal. The commentators of the ufc get on my nerves. Saying stuff like ''look that judoka, is adapting gjj tecniques'' etc etc.


Matt Banks

Jay Bell
23rd April 2001, 18:24
I agree with Billy Bob here. I studied BJJ for a bit, and mentioned the subject of throwing on occasion. Their typical response was, "We don't throw, it's too taxing and takes way too much out of you." Interesting opinion...and I often wondered what led them to that.

Never once in class did we start from standing during randori. Everything was centered around the fact that you were already on the ground. On rare occasions, they would show examples of how to take someone down, but it was never weighed very heavy.

Take care,

Jay

23rd April 2001, 21:59
And that is their weakness.

They do not acknowledge the need for stand up fighting. Their version of stand up would be Vale Tudo. Quite a formitable system in it's own right. Vale Tudo does teach several throws, however it does not specialize in throws like Judo does.

Simply enough.

We cannot judge BJJ too harshly just because they do not like to use throws. Hell, when was the last time you saw Judoka practicing their punching skills? Whoa, Whoa, yes I know Traditional Judo does have er, "atemi" *sniker* hehehe in it's system but you all know what I mean here.

It's just not part of their game, and that is their weakness.



Bubba Jones