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Jiaozi
22nd April 2001, 13:46
Do any koryu believe that a person with the intention to kill someone emanates a specific energy/ki and that this can be sensed? If so, do they have tests within their training curriculum to test and refine the studentsí advancement of perception of this?

John Lindsey
24th April 2001, 17:35
Interesting question. My question is can a teacher test a student this way, by truly having the intention of killing him? This seems a bit more complex than just swinging a live blade at a student with the intention of testing him...which might be harder to pick up on then a true killing intention?

Mark Brecht
24th April 2001, 18:42
Yes, I believe it can be sensed.

Let`s take this to a different level to look at it. Have you ever seen a really attractive and sexy women? Did you subconciously start to scan her up and down, and some thoughts (which I won`t mentioned on a family oriented board) came up...??? BAM, she turns around and give you a look as she wants to rip your head off... Gee, and I was not even intending to kill her, I had something rather different in mind...

I think a persons perception in a life threathing situation will even be more higher (depending on the individual).

Have you ever seen the "7 Samuari", there is an interesting scene in it.

Chip
25th April 2001, 19:43
Originally posted by Mark Brecht

Let`s take this to a different level to look at it. Have you ever seen a really attractive and sexy women? Did you subconciously start to scan her up and down, and some thoughts (which I won`t mentioned on a family oriented board) came up...??? BAM, she turns around and give you a look as she wants to rip your head off... Gee, and I was not even intending to kill her, I had something rather different in mind...


Acctually she usually turns around and winks at me. That's about a half second before my wife turns around and smacks me up side the head.

I've never heard of anything like that. Not that my experience is vast or anything. I'm not going to get into the ki/no ki discussion, but I belive that as a person trains their senses are hightened. I don't think it is as much learning how to read someones intent consciously as it is detecting their intent subconsciously and automatically reacting to it. It is like someone who jumps out the way of a speeding car before they realize it is there.


Originally posted by Mark Brecht

Have you ever seen the "7 Samuari", there is an interesting scene in it.


I never saw it. What's in the scene?

yamatodamashii
25th April 2001, 20:29
The village has successfully recruited it's first samurai to defend it against the marauding bandits. This samurai is helping them recruit others, and has devised a test to see how good they are: his "student" stands behind the door that they will enter the building through--holding a stick to smash on their heads as they come through.
The first samurai thus recruited sees the attack as it is coming, deflects it, and hurls the student across the room.
The second senses the student while he is still about three paces from the door, smiles, and says "No tricks, please!"
This is based on a much older Japanese story.

By the way, I believe that this technique (sakkijutsu) is the basis for the godan test in the Bujinkan? Of course, I have never seen it myself...

Nathan Scott
25th April 2001, 21:18
Hello,

The sensation is known in many arts as "sakki" (killing intention/ murderous air).

There have been stories about this subject that have been passed down. One in particular in reference to one of the Yagyu (could be exaggerated, hard to say).

Personally, I think it is possible, and is an energy (for lack of a better term) that can be sensed instinctively by most - sort of a raw survival skill.

I believe it to be similar to those times when you happen to "feel" someone staring at you, or at the back of your neck. Or the often repeated stories about dogs howling or acting strange if their master dies even though they are miles away.

Wild animals are naturally more tuned into "murderous intention" because they still use that intuition to stay alive. They haven't lost it like many domestic animals and humans have.

But I do think it is a sense/ability that can be developed varying amounts through conscious adherence to daily zanshin and perhaps other methods.

Also, like anything, there are methods around not being sensed as well (gyakuwaza, so to speak).

While I think it is *possible* to sense living beings, killing intent and danger, I have to say I share Mr. Lindsey's reservations about the bujinkan test for the same reasons.

Interesting subject,

Mark Jakabcsin
25th April 2001, 22:10
"Personally, I think it is possible, and is an energy (for lack of a better term) that can be sensed instinctively by most - sort of a raw survival skill. "

I don't know about an energy, maybe there is such a thing but I am sure that no matter how cool or hardened a person is they give off tiny physical clues to their intent. The subconscious mind can pick up on these clues and pass the information on to the conscious mind in the form of a '6th sense' intuition.

An example that is somewhat related is what many North American Indians taught their hunters. When going hunting one should never think about their intended prey (or at least think about them as little as possible). One should also try never to think about or visualize the actual kill. If the hunter can not keep their mind clear and pure then they will act like a predator, nature will perceive them as a predator and react accordingly. The deer or other prey will perceive the signs that other animals in nature (birds, squirels, etc) are giving off due to this predator being in the area and likewise reach a heightened state of awareness or even flee the area before they ever see or smell the predator. In short, one's intent can and does affect the world around them and others can read these affects.

mark

MarkF
26th April 2001, 12:10
Is it possible? God, I hope so. Otherwise I'm one dead human.

mark

Sheridan
27th April 2001, 17:08
Forgive me for asking, but isn't that one of the stories of one of the first three Yagyu Shinkage-ryu masters? (Specifics slip at the moment, sorry.)