Indigo Hakama

[Avatar]

Hi Guys,

I'm considering purchasing an indigo hakama and wanted the comments and recommendations of people who have bought and used one. Can anyone provide comparisons on the Tozando, Iwata and Shori (at Aikido on line store)? Any other brands that are recommended? Thanks.

[WillG]

Bujin also carries nice ones.

http://www.bujindesign.com/

will

[Cady Goldfield]

Originally posted by Avatar
Hi Guys,

I'm considering purchasing an indigo hakama and wanted the comments and recommendations of people who have bought and used one. Can anyone provide comparisons on the Tozando, Iwata and Shori (at Aikido on line store)? Any other brands that are recommended? Thanks.

As was said, Bujin makes really nice custom ones although you might want to read the Bujin site's disclaimor about Ikeda's use of non-traditional "reverse pleats."

Also, be prepared to get "Smurfed" for the first several wearings. You *will* have blue butt, so consider yourself forewarned. :)

[chrismoses]

I have a Bujin poly-coton and a Tozando all cotton (black however). They are both really well made but I must confess to liking the Tozando hakama a bit better. The koshita is a flexible rubber so you get a traditional back look, but it is very comfortable. Tozando also uses thick solid straps (almost as thick as an obi) that tie very nicely and stay very neat. There is also a loop to tuck into your belt in the front and back to keet it all up. Both companies make very nice stuff and I have been very happy with them, bujin can do a more custom job for you if you happen to not be cookie-cutter shaped.

_enjoy.

[Chris Guzik]

Christian,

I am curious how the method of measurement of your Tozando hakama compares to that of the Bujin. Are they both measured along the same line? (I.e., are the sizes of the Bujin and Tozando in cm both the same, or are they measured differently?) Bujin has fairly detailed information on their method of measurement, but I could not find any such guidelines for the Tozando measurement.

Also, how much shrinkage have you experienced with your Tozando cotton one compared to your Bujin blend?

Thanks,

Chris Guzik

[Walker]

I believe Tozando measures down the back from the bottom of the Koshita panel. Then, if you are ordering cotton, they suggest you order one size larger to account for shrinkage. The seam is not even and is shorter over the toes.

Bujin measures the front panel and automatically accounts for shrinkage depending on the type of cloth used.

One note. Bujin’s navy is not the same as indigo. Both are nice colors, but Bujin is much lighter and doesn’t get on everything like indigo.

[chrismoses]

Tozando does measure down the back, this is as Walker stated, the front is about 1" shorter than the back. Another difference is that when ordering from Bujin, you just tell them (in inches or cm) how long you want it, Tozando uses the hakama size system like many other Japanese companies. You can always tell Tozando in the special comments section of the order how you measured for a hakama and they can match that with their closest size. I have not washed my Bujin hakama (which is poly-cotton) but from anecdotal evidence I would expect it not to shrink much. I washed my Tozando cotton hakama twice when I first got it in order to shrink it a little. Both times I washed it in cold water and then even threw it in the dryer (until it was no longer wet, but certainly not thoroughly dry) and it shrank very little. Through constant wear it has expanded back to the size it first was. I really expected a lot more shrikage so that was nice. Another thing to keep in mind is how you wear your hakama, if you tuck in the front of your hakama into your obi, you may consider the Bujin extended pannel, which keeps the sides from bulging out. I don't tuck mine in, and the thick straps and loop on the Tozando do a better job of staying above my obi (even when doing lots of ikkyo ukemi!).

Finally I would consider how I would want my hakama to look in 6 months. If you like the crisp clean lines and consistent color, you may want to consider a polyester blend which will keep its color and pleats much better. If you sweat much, a real indigo dye on cotton will smurf you every time, and you will need to manually put the pleats back into the material every time you fold it. For Aikido I love the feel of the cotton and the sound they make when taking ukemi, so its worth it. It's like having a Hong Kong special effects crew in your pants! =) But for Battojutsu, I like the clean neat lines and lightness of the poly-cotton blend. Hope that helps your decision. Let us know what you go with and how you like the results.

[Cady Goldfield]

Originally posted by Walker
One note. Bujin’s navy is not the same as indigo. Both are nice colors, but Bujin is much lighter and doesn’t get on everything like indigo.

I beg to differ. Bujin's blue hakama do get on everything, like indigo. I have lots of blue gi pants to prove it. :)

You have to wash the hakama before wearing to get the excess dye out, but even after that there will continue to be dye transfer. The cotton hakama are overdyed -- the fibers are overloaded with pigment -- so you either have to wash and wash, or tolerate the dreaded Blue Butt for months.

[Walker]

Cady may be right. I have never owned one and was just commenting on not having noticed “blue butt” on people with Bujin Blue.
Then there is always the dreaded “koshi nages with the guy who just got his indigo hakama.” HELP, I’ve been SMURFED!

[Avatar]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the helpful comments. I have a blue Bujin 100% cotton hakama and when I wore it a number of times before washing it, there was no smurfing on my gi pants or the mat.

However, when I handwashed it in cold water for only 5 mins, the dye ran and the water turned blue. Since then I sometimes get a blue waist where the himo lies and blue knees. Haven't smurfed the mats yet, thankfully!

It's not too bad considering I sweat a lot and train in a tropical country. The upside is that after the first wash, the hakama colour deepened into a lovely dark shade of navy blue from a much lighter, and initially slightly disappointing, lighter blue colour. A dojomate even thought I had dyed the hakama myself to achieve that effect!

But on indigo hakamas, anyone tried the Iwata or Shori brand? I also discovered that Mugendo Budogu also do a range of indigo hakama but they are much more expensive. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Ken

[Devon Smith]

I've owned a Tozando indigo hakama for about four years, and I really like it. As has been mentioned already, the pleats do not hold as well as other materials, and I rely on a different hakama for demonstrations requiring montsuki anyway.

I washed my new Tozando hakama a few times to get the excess dye out. It bled only a little after that, and even today it has a deep rich color.

A quick search found more info than you probably wished for!!

http://www.aikiweb.com/misc/shifflett3.html

[Brian Dunham]

I have a hand stitched Iwata Hakama, and I absolutely love it. They are expensive, but IMHO, well worth it. I did set the indigo dye(salt and vinegar), but I also washed it several times before I wore it. I have never been "smurfed" by training in it.

[Avatar]

Brian,

Where did you order the hand stitched Iwata hakama? Is it the more expensive one found on their web site or did you order it especially? How thick is it and what does it weigh? Thanks for your help.

Ken