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Margaret Lo
21st May 2001, 16:41
Hello folks.
What mix of glucosomine sulfate or HCL with chondroitin sulfate have members found to be useful? Also, what is being sold that is not useful? Finally, where does one get it for cheap. Places like GNC overcharge astronomically.

Thanks

M

pete lohstroh
21st May 2001, 19:32
Dear Margaret,
this is an interesting question. I would love to see the results of any human studies with either of these compounds as most of the literature on glucosamine I've been referred to are veterinary (horses). dose/mass conversions are not valid in these cases. Also, I have discussed chondroitin with a clinician and his conclusion (from literature he has read) is that it cannot pass into the blood steam due to it's size. I am inclined to agree and would not recommend it. Dr. Andrew Weil would be an excellent/objective person to ask!

pete lohstroh
21st May 2001, 19:34
Dear Margaret,
this is an interesting question. I would love to see the results of any human studies with either of these compounds as most of the literature on glucosamine I've been referred to are veterinary (horses). dose/mass conversions are not valid in these cases. Also, I have discussed chondroitin with a clinician and his conclusion (from literature he has read) is that it cannot pass into the blood steam due to it's size. I am inclined to agree and would not recommend it. Dr. Andrew Weil would be an excellent/objective person to ask!

for cheap?
www.vitaminshoppe.com is a very reasonable (house brand).

Joe Kras
16th June 2001, 03:57
Certainly there have been a lot of studies on glucosamine (most of the time combined with chondroitin) for the control of osteoarthritis pain. Most of these studies have not been conducted in North America, and many do not adhere to some of the stricter standards that should be used when testing a hypothesis.

The above being said, there was a pretty good review article in the Journal of the American Medical Association <JAMA 2000 Mar 15;283(11):1483-4> that looked at the literature.

Basically the conclusion was that the studies they looked at had a fair amount of bias to them, but also that the efficacy was so great that even with the bias there was probably some positive effect for the use of glucosamine and chondroitin.

The use of these agents is fairly commonly recommended by European physicians, and in most cases is viewed as either neutral or in a positive fashion by American MD's.

****The above is not meant as a professional recommendation. Consult your doctor before starting new medications. View ALL opinion on the Internet with suspicion. Your mileage may vary. ***

Joe Kras (M.D.)

Joe Kras
16th June 2001, 04:01
Sorry, the listing of the article didn't come through with the last post.

The article in JAMA can be found in the following issue...

(JAMA 2000 Mar 15;283(11):1483-4).

JAMA is available at the majority of public libraries.

Joe Kras

MarkF
16th June 2001, 11:45
Well, in my professional opinion, the cocktail IS effective. Adding Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) has also shown good results.

I read that article last February and is like most, showing positive feedback. As for chondroitin not being absorbed or bio-available, is only half right, and why larger doses improves this availability.

Most MDs and DOs I know recommend glucosamine to patients, but most still don't push the others for the same prejudiced reasons. "Our studies are better than theirs."

Margaret,
You're right, it is very expensive, but OTC and prescription drugs are so out of range with reason that putting a few more bucks into Glucosamine HCL is worth it. However, if you really do want to save the dollars GNC charges (they are overpriced), making a few calls to area health stores or even Wal.Mart will save you the added dollars unnecessarily tacked on in some places.

Bottom line in taking anything such as those mentioned above, is to ask those who know how they should be taken is probably good advice, but most side effects were in the area of minor gastrointestinal irritation, so take it with food or with a lot of water. Asking your "professional" is not always the doctor, nurse or pharmacist.

Oh, yes, I agree with the Internet as this is free advice. Ignore "most" information on the Internet then ask a living, breathing person.

From personal experience, I still have my knees.:)


Mark F. Feigenbaum, Pharm.D.

pete lohstroh
21st June 2001, 01:42
Thanks for the Jama reference! I have been very lazy with my non-work-related library research lately...
I have been taking the vitaminshoppe formulation of gluc-sulf/chond/msm for several months. I think the price is reasonable (it is definitely better than GNC or anything else local).

While I have not noticed any major improvements in large joint function, I have not noticed any ill-effects.

Joe Kras
22nd June 2001, 19:53
>While I have not noticed any major improvements
>in large joint function, I have not noticed any
>ill-effects.

As you probably already know, it can take several(6-8) weeks for these medications to work. The dosage of the glucosamine and chondroitin is usually on the order of 500mg glucosamine/400mg chondroitin 3 times a day (for a person greater than 160lbs. or so) for the initial 6-8 weeks, than 2 times a day after that.

If you're not responding after 10 weeks, than you might not be a person that is going to respond to this treatment, and would be better off buying something else with your money.

Joe Kras

Joe Kras
22nd June 2001, 20:38
>While I have not noticed any major improvements
>in large joint function, I have not noticed any
>ill-effects.

As you probably already know, it can take several(6-8) weeks for these medications to work. The dosage of the glucosamine and chondroitin is usually on the order of 500mg glucosamine/400mg chondroitin 3 times a day (for a person greater than 160lbs. or so) for the initial 6-8 weeks, than 2 times a day after that.

If you're not responding after 10 weeks, than you might not be a person that is going to respond to this treatment, and would be better off buying something else with your money.

Joe Kras

pete lohstroh
22nd June 2001, 22:19
I am mainly interested in prophylaxis so the cost/dose is low enough to continue for the time being. I appreciate the input!