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Terry Ham
28th May 2001, 22:29
:) Hi I was wondering what shidoin translated as I am assumeing shi=teacher do= way in= ? also is this the same in as with budoin? any help would be great..

ghp
29th May 2001, 23:29
I don't remember the exact translation for "in" -- but it is similar to "member." It differs from the one in "budo-in" [this "in" means school. Grad school is a "daigaku-in"]

Kaisha-in. Company Employee (full-time employee).

Hakensha-in. Dispatch-company employee (temporary employee).

Kai-in. Association member.

Shido-in is "Instructor." If I recall, the "shi" kanji is "point," and "do" is "way". So, "A member who points the way" .... (IF my recollection of the "in" kanji is correct.)

Another obtuse kanji for teach is shinan which is a combination of "point" [shi] and "south" [nan] -- I suppose one who points the directions "teaches"??? Anyway, it is a bad idea to try to understand the meaning of a word by disecting the kanji.

Regards,
--Guy

Jeff Hamacher
7th June 2001, 11:16
hmmm ... an interesting attempt at kanji analysis, Guy, but i'm afraid it's a little off the mark. if i may be so bold ...

"shi" is the character used for "finger" ("yubi") and just as you said, the verb "to point" ("sasu").

"do", in this case, is *not* "way" but in fact the verb "to lead" ("michibiku"). the word "shido" can thus be translated as "instruction/to instruct" or in some cases "to remonstrate".

"in" can be translated as "member" or possibly "employee". i have seen the term "shidoin" used in reference to a senior student of a dojo, a person who is perhaps responsible for instruction when the principal teacher ("dojocho") is absent.

the term "shinan" i believe is a mistaken "shihan".

"shi" is the character for "master", "mentor", or "teacher".

"han" can be roughly translated as "model", "example", or "fixed form". "teacher of the model" is a bit unwieldy, but it may be better rendered as "master teacher", in fact a teacher of teachers as one of my aikido colleagues suggested to me.

i also feel inclined to disagree with the notion that analyzing japanese words by their character content is a bad idea. true, you might not want to spend the time on it if you aren't a student of chinese or japanese, but if you intend to study either language seriously you have no choice. once you get into it, kanji study can become quite addictive and it really does increase your command and understanding of nuance.

i hope this helps, and i hope that you don't feel as though i came on too strong, Guy.

cheers, jeff hamacher

Jeff Hamacher
17th September 2001, 08:13
as per my pointer in another thread, here's a retraction on my comments in the post above. as Guy said, there in fact is a term shinan, which has essentially the same meaning as shihan. the characters for shinan are as follows:

"shi" is the old "finger/point" character mentioned upthread.

"nan" is for "south" (also read "minami")

the etymology of the word, according to that most venerable of japanese dictionaries the Kojien, is very interesting indeed. it seems that, in ancient china, they came up with a design for a cart with a simple compass attached. most likely by use of magnets, this compass would consistently point south, so that in unfamiliar terrain (there's even a story in here about soldiers using the cart in a dense fog!), one could maintain a constant course. the "needle" of this compass, by the way, was a figurine of a mountain sage with arm outstretched! pretty nutty stuff, eh? regardless, the original use of the term is firmly rooted in orienteering (and we all know that "orienteering" is based on the root "orient", right?).

returning to the topic at hand, Guy's assessment of the term when used to mean "instructor, master, teacher", is accurate: "pointing the direction" or "one who points the direction". you can also add the character "ban" (as in "banken" or "watchdog") to get the term for a feudal lord's martial arts teaching staff.

once again, Guy, mea culpa. read y'all later.

Paul Steadman
20th January 2002, 05:27
Hi All,

I've never seen the kanji for shidoin, but took a wild guess at: Shi (warrior) + Do (way) + In (member) = Member of the Warrior Way (aka: Bushido)! Don't laugh OK.

By the way can someone point me to the kanji for shidoin and shidoshi?

All the best,

Paul Steadman

Anders Pettersson
20th January 2002, 08:41
Originally posted by Paul Steadman
Hi All,

I've never seen the kanji for shidoin, but took a wild guess at: Shi (warrior) + Do (way) + In (member) = Member of the Warrior Way (aka: Bushido)! Don't laugh OK.

By the way can someone point me to the kanji for shidoin and shidoshi?


Kanji for Shidoin should be: Žw“±ˆõ

The explanation for each kanji as Jeff wrote are correct.

"shi" is the character used for "finger" ("yubi") and just as you said, the verb "to point" ("sasu").

"do", in this case, is *not* "way" but in fact the verb "to lead" ("michibiku"). the word "shido" can thus be translated as "instruction/to instruct" or in some cases "to remonstrate".

"in" can be translated as "member" or possibly "employee". i have seen the term "shidoin" used in reference to a senior student of a dojo, a person who is perhaps responsible for instruction when the principal teacher ("dojocho") is absent.

Chris Li
20th January 2002, 12:16
Originally posted by Anders Pettersson


Kanji for Shidoin should be: Žw“±ˆõ

The explanation for each kanji as Jeff wrote are correct.


Yes, and yes. I'd add that the verb form ("shido suru") is a common way to say "teach", as in "Who taught class last night?".

Best,

Chris