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Dennis_Mahon
10th June 2001, 22:20
Does anyone have any recomendations for strengthening the knees? I recently wrenched one knee, and have taken to wearing a brace for support. Since then, I've noticed that my other knee is somewhat sore ( probably my age catching up with me :cry: ). Any advice?

Dennis_Mahon
10th June 2001, 22:55
Thanks for the advice.


What about deep-knee bends- would they help or hurt in this situation?

NoMan
10th June 2001, 23:36
All these really good questions and me without all my research materials. :o Anyway, deep-knee bends can be potentially dangerous. There are a couple of reasons why, and the most scientific one is eluding me at this time. (As Kent pointed out in another thread, never use any of this information to replace a trained physician.)

Anyway, whenever you contract your quadriceps, the patellar ligament has a natural tendency to from its attachment, at the upper front aspect of the tibea. The heavier, lower, and faster you go, the more this particular effect occurs.

This is the reason heavy squatters use knee wraps, to prevent this from happening. Don't be misguided into thinking that only weight training can cause damage, improper bodyweight exercises are as potentially dangerous.

Also, the quadriceps can contract more efficiently when the feet are pointing at slight angles outward, (25-30 degrees), than they can whenever they are straight. If you squat in a very wide stance, you tend to bring in the adductors too much, which causes stress in the medial collateral ligament, abnormal cartilage loading, and improper patellar tracking.

Conversely, if you squat in a narrow stance, you tend to increase the shearing forces on the patellar tendon and ligament. So, a slightly wider than shoulder width stance is best, with the feet pointing slightly outward. This is a VERY short list of all the problems that occur during squatting, and on a weak joint, this is something you can't risk. Squatting is a great mass builder, but a very potentially dangerous one as well.

I personally recommend very light leg extensions while recovering from a knee injury. It strengthens the quadriceps and improves the knee's stability, while not putting direct pressure on it. (As is in the case of squatting, leg presses, lunges, etc.)

rsamurai
14th June 2001, 01:20
mr bergstrom, thank you for the vidio clip. i just blew out my rt knee in randori, the day after i was told i could do randori again by my doctor, after blowing out my lt knee. hey i am symetrical.

Jeff Hamacher
14th June 2001, 04:11
kent,

the subject line should say it all. i just stumbled on this thread and would be very happy to get comments from any and all. i have about 4 years experience with aikido and have more recently started jo. i also have about 1 year of tea ceremony study under my belt.

last year around april both of my knees became somewhat sore and foolishly i continued to train in aikido until july when i knew that things were way wrong. on one (canadian) doctor's advice i took a lengthy break from training and the right knee pretty much sorted itself out, but the left knee continued to trouble me. in november when i had a check-up from a doctor here in japan and underwent a set of tests including an MRI scan, we finally got to the bottom of things: the lateral meniscii in my left knee had splits which would require surgery. the doctor surmised, since the splits were very "clean" and almost perfectly horizontally level, that the injuries were in essence a form of repetitive stress disorder, probably a result of continuing to train after the pain had become noticeable.

i had surgery in december, went for subsequent check-ups to receive advice from the doctor, and slowly but surely, the knee has been recovering. the joint has become almost fully flexible again and i only experience pain if i bend the knee (gently) into something close to a half-lotus sitting position, which i was able to do on both "sides" before the injury. there is some fluid build-up in the joint, although the doctor told me to expect this. his advice to me was:

1) the surgery involved the removal of tissue from the joint. while it was not very much, the joint has been weakened however slightly by the procedure. the risk of a reoccurence of the same injury is higher than with a perfectly healthy knee, and if you train in martial arts there is nothing you can do to completely eliminate that risk. on the other hand, the whole point of the surgery was to allow you to return to physical activities that you enjoy, and i would encourage you try training again in accordance with what the knee will allow. be sensitive to pain, and if think there's any danger, stop what you're doing right then and there and give the knee a rest.

2) this type of injury occurs when the knee is bent very deeply and subsequently receives some kind of lateral or rotational force. be mindful of this type of motion when you use your knees. [gee, sounds a little like suwari-waza, don't it?;) ]

3) try to give the knee as much exercise as you reasonably can while avoiding those "high-risk" motions. the joint needs stretching and strength training or it will take much longer to fully recuperate. the body needs exercise to become and stay healthy.

i have returned to aikido class perhaps once a week and sometimes experience mild pain the day after class, but when i described it to the doctor he said that it sounded as though it was within "acceptable limits", i.e. no sharp, strong pain that would indicate re-injury. tea ceremony and jo don't generally give me a problem, but recently the fluid build-up in the joint is quite noticeable. should i just give up aikido altogether and continue with jo or other non-knee-intensive arts? what about tea ceremony? is it reasonable that, six months after surgery, the knee would still feel like this? i will not rely on your comments as my sole medical counsel, but especially if you think there's something wrong i will take the opportunity to consult my doctor here. looking forward to hearing back.

sincerely, jeff hamacher

PS my connection timed out when i tried to watch the massage video; i have very fast LAN connection at work, so if there's some way for me to see it or download it, i'd appreciate advice on that, too.

Jens
15th June 2001, 08:22
Mr Hamacher,

Believe it or not, I had my MRI scan yesterday here in Tokyo and I might have the exact same problem - and yes, because of aikido. The doctor thought it was something wrong with the lateral meniscus, but he can't tell for sure until the results from the scan come in next week. Reading your post:eek:, I'm becoming somewhat worried:cry:. Could you tell me a bit more about the nature of the pain you felt before you had the surgery?

regards,

Jens "too stupid to quit in time?" Nasstrom