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George Hyde
12th June 2001, 15:26
Hi All,

As we understand it, Doshin So studied at the North Shorinji Giwamonken School of Kempo and in 1936, at a ceremony at the school, became the official successor.

My question - who succeeded him? Does the school still exist? Did he pass on succession before he was repatriated to Japan? Does the line continue via Hombu?

Any wu-shu authorities out there?

Later,

Anders Pettersson
25th June 2001, 09:07
Gassho.


In the "History of Shorinji Kempo" articles, which you can find on the Swedish Shorinji Kempo Federation web site, one can read this


In the fall of 1936, Doshin took the opportunity of going to Xian in Shanxi Province to accompany Master Wen to the ruins of the Songshan Shaolin Temple. The demolished Hall of the Founder remained in name only, but with the Master's old friend the Head Priest presiding, the Yihemen Quan ceremony was performed to pass on the mantle of leadership, and Doshin received recognition of his status as the 21st generation Shifu.


Shifu I believe is a poor romanisation from Sifu, which more or less means teacher. (Japanese can't really say SI, hence the SHI).

As I interpret this, it does not mean that he was the sole successor and prime leader of this martial tradition, but that he was recognised as a licensed teacher of it.

Sifu does not mean the "top leader", but teacher.

As for continuing of the Kita Shorin Giwamon ken I don't know, but I believe that we should look upon Shorinji Kempo as an art created by Kaiso and not anything else.
Shorinji Kempo started with Kaiso and the arts that Kaiso did study before he created Shorinji Kempo of course had a big influence, but we can not see it as the line of these arts are continued at Hombu today.

George Hyde
25th June 2001, 14:52
Hi Anders,

I realise "sifu" doesn't necessarily imply "leader", but "21st generation sifu" implies a bit more than "teacher".

As I understand it, it was the claim to this heritage that gave rise to the court case in 1972 that resulted in "Shorinji Kempo" becoming "Nippon Shorinji Kempo" - (incidentally, anyone clear on what happened since then to change it back?)

As to your last point, I don't disagree - I'm just curious.

Later,

Anders Pettersson
26th June 2001, 09:59
Originally posted by George Hyde
I realise "sifu" doesn't necessarily imply "leader", but "21st generation sifu" implies a bit more than "teacher".

In my opinion it doesn't.
According to what I have learned (more or less from reading articles written by Swedish people that have been practising in China and at Shaolin [which usually not means the actual temple but at the schools outside the temple]).

According to one article that I have at hand it says that all monks and "ordained students" always get a name that correspond to their "generation". The way I interpret this is that being a teacher of a certain "generation" is more a rule than the exception.
So as for Kaiso being named "Sifu of the 21 generation" is nothing special but more the common way when receiving a "teachers licence/authorization".



Originally posted by George Hyde
As I understand it, it was the claim to this heritage that gave rise to the court case in 1972 that resulted in "Shorinji Kempo" becoming "Nippon Shorinji Kempo" - (incidentally, anyone clear on what happened since then to change it back?)

I do not know much about this incident, only heard some rumours over the years. And today we don't have the "Nippon" anymore.
Maybe our Japanese speaking/reading members Karahashi-san and Omi-san (for life judged to be official translators at all official events :D ), could give us more info?



Originally posted by George Hyde
As to your last point, I don't disagree - I'm just curious.

I didn't think that we disagreed; the reason I wrote that was more for lurkers than for you.
And I am also curious.

hsuntzu
14th July 2001, 22:14
Oops, sorry for the delay here. I've been travelling quite a bit recently.

Court cases... I'm not sure which one the "1972" case refers to, but I have read and heard about several cases that Hombu has been involved in. I don't think Hombu ever had to change the name to "Nippon Shorinji Kempo" though.

Please note that I'm not an expert in the details of these court cases. What I know are based on what I've read and heard from various sources - including people who were directly involved.

Probably the most famouse/infamous case is the "Fudo-Zen" case. Fudo-Zen was a group headed by a Mr. Tanekawa. He had gotten a hold of the real Shorinji Kempo kyohan (the thick "instructor's" textbook...not the Fukudokuhon, some people call it the Shorinji Kempo bible), and started teaching something in the Osaka area in the mid 1950's. The Fudozen group soon started to use the name "Shorinji Kempo," as well as claiming to be the true form of it. The group also used several different names, such as "Fudo Kempo" "Kempo Fudo-Ryu" "Nihon-den Shorinji Kempo"; one of the most famous one was "Fudo-Zen Shorinji Kempo"

In the early 1970's the situation developed into a lawsuit that got settled in the mid 1990's. The basic out-come was that the name "Shorinji Kempo" is an unique reference to what So Doshin started, and no one can use it unless authorized by Hombu (Kongo Zen Sohonzan Shorinji and Shorinji Kempo Federation). Last I heard, after the settlement, the Fudozen group was using the name "Fudo-Zen Shorinji-Ryu Kempo".

Other cases I know of:

- "Ken Sei Do" group originally found by an ex-Shorinji Kempo branch master after being expelled.

- A group that used the name "Shorin Kempo." Following a court case, they changed the name to "Shorin-ken" or "Shorin-ken Butokukai"

Does this help?

Gassho,

Kimpatsu
12th October 2001, 01:31
Hi, George.
From my understanding, Giwamonken as a style no longer exists, but offshoots of it still lurk here and there. BTW, this style was taught entirely through embu. With all due respect to Anders, I thought that the ceremony involving Kaiso named him not just Sifu, but successor, so he is the nominal head of the (now defunct) school.
Anybody heard different?
Tony Kehoe

John McCollum
24th October 2001, 18:41
Hi all,

On P57 of the English translation of the Fukodoku-hon, the wording clearly suggests that Kaiso was the sole master of the Giwamonken line.

"Kaiso went to China in 1928, at the age of 18, and lived there for 17 years. During his stay there he learned martial arts (kengi) from the masters of the various schools which had gone into hiding after the Boxer Rebellion. After much practice, he was permitted to succeed Wen'tau Tsung, the 20th master of Northern Shorinji Giwamonken, as the 21st master in the line."

My interpretation of this is that he did inherit the art as the sole successor. Also, since Kaiso didn't teach this art (as far as I know) I suspect the line died with him, leaving no successor.