The old day challenges

[Matthew Banks]

Hi there,

Ive read that in the old days, there were always challenges between jujutsu dojo's, and if someone won, his name would go up on the dojo entrance.

This sort of stuff really interests me. Do you know of any good books that talks about the unarmed jujutsu tecniques of the old days. Or books that talk in depth about the jujutsu comps Jigorna
Kano competed in.


cheers

Matt Bank:laugh:

[MarkF]

Those challenges became especially important in post 1860s Japan, but as Jigoro Kano had given up any match activity by the time the Kodokan became Kodokan Judo, I've not read of any particular matches as such involving Kano. He was too busy in his work and with judo and Japanese sports, or rather, bringing sports to Japan.

But for an interesting read on the [in]famous Tokyo police department challenge, with the four "shitenno" (heavenly lords), try this link (http://www.furyu.com/archives/issue3/judo.html)

Mark

PS: Anyone else?

[Stephenjudoka]

In England in the early 1900's Tani took on all comers in the music halls.
Somewhere I have an article all about Tani. I will look it up and post it.

Stephen Sweetlove
The older I get the better I was.

[MarkF]

Stephen,
Is the article the one by Graham Noble? If so, I've got that one, which was reprinted on http://ejmas.com It is archived and from the InYo forum on the site. It is indeed a great article. If you can't find it, I have it.

It is a great read folks.

Mark

[Stephenjudoka]

Mark,

Thanks that is the one. I ask everyone to read it. It tells of what happened in England in the early 1900 Ju Jutsu versus Wrestling.
Please enjoy.

Stephen Sweetlove

[MarkF]

Hey, Stephen, et alia,
I will post the link. I posted a small part in the karate forum in the "urban myth" thread, but only how the truth eventually goes to the wayside, but the myths stay with us for the duration. Anyway, here is the direct link: http://ejmas.com/jalt/jaltart_Noble_1000.htm

There are some magnificant photos of the wrestlers and strongmen of the day.

Here is a small taste from the article:

By Noble:


Bankier had trained with Tani, and although a strongman himself he could never get the better of the Japanese. Although Bankier may not always be a reliable witness, in his book Jujitsu: What It Really Is, he noted that Tani always kept tricks up his sleeve and never taught the full extent of his knowledge. On one occasion the two men bet "a sumptuous dinner" on whether or not Bankier could last 15 minutes with Tani in a contest. "The match came off at once," wrote Bankier, "and sad to relate, after all my practise he beat me in exactly three minutes with a hold I had never seen him use. It was then that I found out that he keeps a good deal of knowledge in reserve for emergencies.
_________
By G. Noble, reprinted by Joseph R. Svinth, editor



While Judo promoted this way may have made the Kodokan look bad in some eyes, people had to make a living, and also keep most of what they trained from prying eyes. Then, much of judo really was a secret, noting jujutsu was the "flavor" preferred by most.

Mark