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Moko
24th June 2001, 16:07
Hi all.

Does anyone here know anything about Okami Gakko Ryu Ninjutsu? I have never heard of t before however that means jack.

Thanks for the help.

Mark Brecht
24th June 2001, 16:24
Robert,

that came up only recently. I was looking for it, but did not find it yet. I try again.

Btw, why do you post this in the BJK section ??? This post should (probably will) be moved over to the Ninpo (Neo Ninja section).

Moko
25th June 2001, 02:11
Hey Mark,

I posted it in here as I don't think other people will look in here. That plus I think those of us in the Booj are smarter than the others. I would consider it dishonorable but I am very niave. I have never checked out the Genbukan site. The Fraud sites though are open season, though. Hehehehe.

The reason I asked about this Okami stuff, is that buddy just opened up a school in a suburb of Victoria. From the photos it looks like they don't understand the basics of Budo which is funny. I also like to gather some info on people before I walk into their dojo.

He has the most annoying music on his site.

Dennis_Mahon
25th June 2001, 20:43
I posted it in here as I don't think other people will look in here. That plus I think those of us in the Booj are smarter than the others.

Now don't be like that....there is no need to insult anybody just because they're not part of the Bujinkan. I certainly would never claim to be smarter than anybody else just because I've joined the Bujinkan (mostly because of the numerous witnesses to my stupidity in the past), and neither should you.

Chi
26th June 2001, 09:26
(School of the wolf Ryuu??)

http://www.geocities.com/yasurutachi/ninjutsu.html

Are they in some way related to the booj? Reason for asking is in one of the pictures of the Kamiza (see below) the left hand side makimono looks suspiciously like a listing of the nine schools... I can distinctly make out "Kukishinden Ryuu" (?@S?_`?@?j and "Shinden Fudo Ryuu" (?@?_`s?@). He also claims the title of "Shidoshi", but yet does not seem to mention the Bujinkan at any point in any of his pages.

Interestingly, in his "About me" page there is a photo of him with Obata Toshishiro and Kimeda Tekishi, whom he says are his teachers.

However, he does not seem to have claimed any background in ninpo/Ninjutsu apart from "Okami Gakko" (is this guy the creator, or merely a teacher?), and I can find no web references to this style apart from this one single webpage. There is a contact address/email on the site so you could try speaking to the guy for more info. Personally, I am a little sceptical about this style not that that means anything at all...

Regards,

Chris.

Richard Price
26th June 2001, 10:00
Throwing is our speciality - there are over four hundred throws in our system.

http://www.geocities.com/yasurutachi/Gabetheacrobat.jpg

Look how far this guy got thrown.........wowsers.



But seriously, they seem to be doing a bit of a mix of different things and dressing up in kooky outfits.........now, where have I seen that before?

Mark Brecht
26th June 2001, 10:16
Ohhh not again, we just discussed this a few weeks back ( I need to find that damm thread).

The dojo in the background is a legitmate and offical Bujinkan Dojo in Canada, it does not belong to the guy in the pics (he was just renting space there, or came in for a workout, when the pics were taken). The shodo on the walls was done by Mieko san (who does our Shodo artwork at Japanese Treasures) several years ago, and was a gift to that BJK dojo.

I have met this guy before oce or twice, however I have no clue about this "Okami Gakko Ryu". Never heard of it before, except from this guy.

Mark Brecht
26th June 2001, 10:18
Originally posted by Richard Price
Look how far this guy got thrown.........wowsers.

I highly doubt that was a throw. Looks rather he did a backflip to avoid a front snap kick... Pretty fancy, but hey it was for a pic...

Chi
26th June 2001, 10:30
Originally posted by Mark Brecht
The dojo in the background is a legitmate and offical Bujinkan Dojo in Canada, it does not belong to the guy in the pics (he was just renting space there, or came in for a workout, when the pics were taken). The shodo on the walls was done by Mieko san (who does our Shodo artwork at Japanese Treasures) several years ago, and was a gift to that BJK dojo.


Ah. That explains it. Domo, Mark-san!

(Lovely shodo btw!)

Richard: I can't view the picture, but I assume you mean the one where he is backflipping away from the opponent?

Regards,

Chris.

ADDENDUM: I just found the other thread on Okami Gakko... must have missed this one first time round! http://204.95.207.136/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5677

Richard Price
28th June 2001, 09:41
Originally posted by Mark Brecht


I highly doubt that was a throw. Looks rather he did a backflip to avoid a front snap kick... Pretty fancy, but hey it was for a pic...


Mark, I know. I was JOKING.

Moko
11th July 2001, 21:40
Here we go.

In response to some of my questions the name of the school has changed from Okami to Ookami. Not Okama. I'm pretty sure. That plus there's a ton of crap for a history up there. I append it for your enjoyment. The spelling mistakes are also novel. As is his use of what was the English language.

Robert

A BRIEF HISTORY OF
OOKAMI GAKKO RYU
Ookami Gakko Ryu can trace it's roots to two significant martial art
figures. ITTO ITTOSAI KAGE HISA, and YAGYU MUNEYOSHI. Both men were
founders of martial systems.
Itto Ittosai Kage Hisa founded the Itto Ryu, from the teachings of KAE MAKI
JISAI of the Chiyu Ryu. Jisai had studied under TODA SEIGEN.
To earn menkyo kaiden, and become the first Soke of Ono Ha Itto Ryu, Ono
Tadaaki had to fight a shinken shobu! Tadaaki instructed the second Tokugawa
Shogun, Tokugawa Hidetada. The Shoguns guard also learned Itto Ryu at this
time, and remains the same today.
The book Ittosai Kenpo Sho was written in 1653 and outlines the principles
ans strategy of the school.
After fighting and losing a match to KAMI ZUMI NOBUTSUNA, Yagyu Muneyoshi
began his study of Shinkage Ryu, from the same man the defeated him. From
this he laid the foundation for Yagyu Shinkage Ryu.
Yagyu Munemori was the secong Soke of Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, and instructed the
third Shogun, Tokugawa Iemitsu. The book Hei Ho Kaden Sho was written about
Yagyu strategy around this time.
YAGYU JUBE was the third Soke of Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, and at the same time
created a system of Ninjutsu as an offshoot to the primary school. The
people who trained in this system were the spies, police, and warriors for
the Shogun. Yagyu Jube acted as Soke and served Diligenlty under the third
shogun from 1644-1673.
Ookami Gakko Ryu, is descended from Jube's system of ninjutsu, and follows
many of the same priciples as it's originator. It has grown with the times
to include many new techniques, and methods of thinking to ensure that it,
as its parent art, meets the needs of the practitioner. Be it warrior, or
spiritualist, Ookami Gakko Ryu shows one of the many paths to satori that
many seek. It is not the only path, nor the best path, but it is a good
path.


" THE WAY IS IN TRAINING"

--MIYAMOTO MUSASHI NO KAMI FUJIWARA NO GENSHIN--
:smash:

Nikari
12th July 2001, 09:30
Alright,

It was my understanding that Yagyu Jubei disappears from the official edo records for approximately ten years and then reappears at a Sword Demonstration with his Father and Brother.

There are INFINITE stories about what Yagyu Jubei went through during his ten year stint as Ronin. All we know is that he is NOT on the books, this doesn't even nesscessarily mean he left edo...yet alone founded a Ninja Ryu.

Besides, unless I am incorrect, the Tokugawa Shogunate already had a Ninja police force at that time frame. The descendents, or perhaps the man himself, of Hanzo Hattori.

It would be very easy to claim that Yagyu Jubei founded a ryu ha of Ninjutsu, and probably could have been the case. Like was pointed out in a previous thread, the fact that he uses the term Shidoshi makes him skeptical because as was said in the previous thread this was a term created by Hatsumi sensei.

I myself am in the process of writing a piece of literature about the missing years in Jubei's documented life, it isn't much of a stretch to fabricate a ryu ha...but then again, it is more then possible. He may also be calling himself a Shidoshi so that he would be recognized in the Ninjutsu world...Infinite possibilities...

By the way, didn't Van Damme use the term Shidoshi for his teacher in the movie bloodsport? Fraud is a beautiful thing when employed skillfully.

Don Roley
13th May 2002, 23:07
Robert,
Dude.. I noticed your karma dropped to about -11 since the last time I looked. I wondered why and found out that on this thread some guy named "Kaigisha" has managed to post multiple times in the Karma section of your first two posts here. I did not even know that was possible, though I have never tried it.

I quess some people do not appreciate you exposing them to the world. Or did you drop by their school and push them around a bit?

In regards to the Okami Gakko ryu, still no proof that the school ever existed in Japan, or that the teacher of the art actually had a real instructor in ninjutsu has been given me yet. And the pictures on the sight still do not fill me with awe as to their levle of skill.

Moko
13th May 2002, 23:19
N'pas de problem

Karma on here has not adversly affected my bank account or taijutsu.

The "Heaven Dog school" of ninjutsu Soke has behaved himself. I asked, er told him not to promote himself as a teacher of ninjutsu and to the best of my knowledge he hasn't. I have students in Sooke (His town) who check. He can teach any type of Samurai skills he wants. I don't care. I also invite him to our Budo seminars. He doesn't show. But then again why a Soke would train with people below his level...

As for Kaigishi I'll ask around and get an sadress. Then I will visit. I suspect I know who it is. These people have lots of guts from behind a keyboard. Less once they are slammed against a wall or two.

And I have recently been promoting a seminar in july. The teacher was soke. Care to guess who put that one up?

Robert

PS

For the rest of you that are reading this thread...Brother can you spare some Karma? Hehehehe! Thanks. Many good men can do more than one coward.

Robert

Terry Ham
14th May 2002, 03:58
Btw, why do you post this in the BJK section ??? This post should (probably will) be moved over to the Ninpo (Neo Ninja section


Just wondering,, has or is the ninpo/ninjutsu section being changed to a bujinkan section?

Moko
14th May 2002, 04:09
Very few people from the Booj hang out here anymore. We hang out in a Booj only list. Similar to your genbukan only list. When you join the Booj you can hang out there too. It's very diffent from e-budo.

Robert

mrmonkey
14th May 2002, 04:37
Just wondering,, has or is the ninpo/ninjutsu section being changed to a bujinkan section?

We stick around to torment Ralph....
We just adore to hearing him talk about combat....

There was a Booj Section, which was removed then put back up as a Takamatsu Den section then yelled about then taken down again....

It would be intertesting reading....
I'm sure John has it someplace safe.....
Locked away in some dungeon....being tortured for info.
I can see him there with the most pernicious thread, plumbing its depths...

JL: "Tell me, my little Thread...tell me about the secret 14th TYR catch...."
LT: "I'll never tell you, you're a monster...."
JL: "Oh, I'm a monster am I...bwah hah ha....well, then you wouldn't be surprized at me using this in my birdcage".
LT: "Not my kata notes!!!...oh please, don't let your vulture poop on my kata notes....I'll tell you anything...anything you want." <sob>

Kenseii
14th May 2002, 10:37
Why was the bujinkan section removed (I for one would like to see it back, I mean there is a Genbukan section so why not)?

Oni
14th May 2002, 16:18
Originally posted by Moko
Very few people from the Booj hang out here anymore. We hang out in a Booj only list. Similar to your genbukan only list. When you join the Booj you can hang out there too. It's very diffent from e-budo.

Robert

This particular forum is neither Genbukan, Jinenkan, Bujinkan, etc. This forum is open to all forms of ninpo discussion as I personally am not into this whole seperatism or elitism that some folks seem to be gravitating towards (please don't take this personally Robert, not sure if it applies to you or not).

To answer an above request I doubt the Bujinkan board will return to E-Budo due to the request and attitude of certain Bujinkan shidoshi. Bujinkan discussion however will continue as long as folks wish to discuss it here. There is no Jinenkan board either as Manaka S. requested. However there is discussion about it from time to time. No need for labels to have conversation.

Don Roley
20th April 2003, 00:42
While I was gone for a few days, a question about this teacher popped up. The thread was closed before I could respond.

To remind people, the teacher, Jackson Wagner, has not provided any proof what- so- ever that he trained under the teacher he says he did, nor has had any type of training that he claims.

He sent along a certificate that he claimed he recieved from his teacher. I was the second person who could read Japanese to see it. The thing is a poorly put together chop shop of other certificates and is so funny milk almost ran out of my nose I was laughing so hard. Among other things, it was issued to someone named Adam and was issued by the heavenly dog association.

I think that we need to remember what Phil Elmore wroten in his essay about Bull Shi Tsu.


When you see this sort of business, question it. Here's a tip, too: testimonials aren't proof. No matter how whacky the system, there will always be rubes who fall for it. Their glowing recommendations are simply their means of combating cognitive dissonance, that discomfort caused by the conflict between reality and our contrary desires and actions. Demand proof. The burden of proof rests with those who make grand assertions.

So, I think that anyone who wants to train with Jackson Wagner should hold out for proof to back up his claims. And I think that this thread should be moved to the Bad Budo section.

John Lindsey
20th April 2003, 02:29
I hope to remove the Genbukan forum in the future, once something "else" is in place at genbukan.com.

icynorth
20th April 2003, 02:31
Jackson is hardly bad budo. He never claimed to teach Ninjutsu the school is Bujutsu. He is an incredible practitioner, more honour than most I have met. He will be flying out next week to train with us for the 5th time. Get on the mats with him, I have seen a few big ones fall rather quickly. Honestly I know Jack about traditonal lineages, but if he is a faker he's doing amazing at it, and I am more than happy to take my chances to train with him. Where would he qualify as bad budo anyway. Cause he can't prove it to you? Mind you I know you have the connections so I am not going to dispute your research methods. Jackson doesn't charge crap all, he is very down to earth great guy. Teaches a great survival course too.
Tell you what if there is someone in Ottawa area that wants to come see Jackson teach, to see if he sucks or not email me at bujingodai@yahoo.ca

He is the one single martial artist I have ever met that I can count on for anything.

Don Roley
20th April 2003, 03:05
Originally posted by icynorth
He never claimed to teach Ninjutsu the school is Bujutsu.

Yes he did claim to teach ninjutsu. He has since stopped after some pressure from the members of this board. I wish some of the threads in the NHB&G were not deleted, because I could show you where he does try to defend his claims of being a ninjutsu teacher.

And as for your feelings about Wagner, they mean about as much as your glowing testimonials about Yo Sato or the Nindo ryu. As I quoted from Sharp Phil, "Here's a tip, too: testimonials aren't proof. No matter how whacky the system, there will always be rubes who fall for it. Their glowing recommendations are simply their means of combating cognitive dissonance, that discomfort caused by the conflict between reality and our contrary desires and actions."

If you want to avoid petty flame wars, then perhaps you can get Wagner to provide some sort of proof to his claims of his training. You can say that you like what he does all day and it does not get around the problem that even people like Ashida Kim have people that will say the same things about him.

Again quoting Sharp Phil, "The burden of proof rests with those who make grand assertions." In this case, Wagner claims to have been taught by a Japanese teacher in an obscure art. Well, his own personal training history should be easy to prove. If he can't provide proof to his own history any more than Ashida Kim or Yo Sato, then it is only natural that many of us will continue to sit back and chuckle at him and those that claim him to be a good teacher.

Moko
20th April 2003, 04:25
Same as Don with this thread. I wnated to respond but was not able to due to some lightening fast closing. Very cool that it was closed and very cool that it's open.

Jackson Wagner is a fraud as far as teaching Ninjutsu which he claimed to do on this forum. End of story. If you beleive that he is not a fraud that's wonderful. It's Easter tomorrow and I suppose the Easter Bunny Rabbit will be dropping by your place. Perhaps you're on a first name basis with him too.

Don, I had thought that we were not going to mention to Jackson Soke about the incorrect speling on his certificate. Now he will correct that also as he has corrected his schools name from Okami to Ookami.

If he's awesome and great on the mats that's wonderful but it means sweet tweet. One reason for that could be your skill levels are in the toilet. I don't buy into it. He has a standing offer here to come and train but he doesn't. Jackson Soke will have an excuse. Too far away to travel or something. His problem not mine.

So on the whole it looks like I'm saying some bad things about Jaskon Soke however they are facts. They paint him in a bad light. His problem.

To his credit, I asked him NOT to advertise as teaching Ninjutsu and he has not. He now claims to teach Bujutsu. I respect the fact that he's not teaching that which he has no knowledge of. It's a lot to ask for some of these Super Soke. However Sooke (Jackson's town) is only and hour away and if some guy is teaching Ninjutsu, Man I am so there.

This thread should not be in the Nnjutsu section. It is nothing remotely close to ninjutsu. Bad Budo or Baffling Budo. I would suggest Baffling as Jackson Soke still hasn't finished making up the name for his art. (His Budo is so good he baffles himself.)

Oni
20th April 2003, 04:33
I think I will just close it...not sure why it popped back up from the dead...night night.