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Barry Southam
4th July 2001, 23:59
Friends,

I am interested in finding information about what the Japanese Police are taught as part of there TaihoJutsu training and how much of it is Judo if any....Are there any Taiho Jutsu organizations that aren't a sub specialty of another martial art in Japan and stand alone ? Is TaihoJutsu considered a martial art and if so who developed it...

Yes, I realize that martial art systems might teach there own version of Taihojutsu within there system in Japan and here in the USA.,....I thought this topic if it hasn't already been discussed might be of interest.....Especially if Judo plays a large role..... Addresses in Japan to train if someone wanted to go ?
I am not sure but I think the Kodokan refers people to the local Police for training ...

Thanks

Barry E. Southam

Don Cunningham
5th July 2001, 00:43
There seems to be a lot of misinformation about this subject. I am a member of and trained at a private dojo in the Yokohama suburbs. It was started by a Kanagawa Prefecture policeman, who died many years ago, then it was supported by the department's members until his son was old enough to lead it. His son, Asahi Dai san, was also a judo champion for the police department. Carried on the books technically as "judo instructor," his real duties were to train and to win at inter-police judo tournaments. After graduation from college and when his athletic prime was over, he went on to graduate school and became a bone-setter, helping his mother in her clinic attached to the dojo.

Japanese police are required to train in either judo or kendo. I've also heard that the National Police Department's riot squad takes a year of training in Yoshinkai (sp?) Aikido. Most major police departments have their own dojos for both martial arts. Based on my own subjective opinion, it seemed that judo was favored by the typical patrolmen and street officers, while kendo was the favorite of the administrative types, but this was based only on my limited experience. Some of their judo dojos are open to selected visitors, but you need a personal introduction to get in, just like in most any Japanese situation.

What I've seen of taihojutsu is sort of like some judo, but then they were mostly judoka policemen showing me their techniques. So I guess it would have been more likely they explained things in judo terms and showed me mostly "judo-like" waza. I don't think this is taught outside the police departments in any form. They are usually pretty secretive about it, but I don't know why since it was stuff you could learn from just about any good self-defense or arresting technique book on the market.

I can get you the address for Asahi Dai sensei's dojo if you're really interested in judo training with the Japanese police. I can also provide a letter of introduction, a necessity when dealing with their complicated social etiquette, but I will need to know more details about your plans. Open-ended introductions are not very acceptable there. You can reach me via e-mail if you're serious about it. As for the taihojutsu, you'll have to depend on your personality to get into that.

By the way, I found their judo practice fairly easy, but I thought I wouldn't get out alive from their kendo practice. Each department dojo has a different way of doing things just like here.

dakotajudo
5th July 2001, 00:56
You might try the book "Japan's Ultimate Martial Art" by Darrell Max Craig.

Although the subtitle is "Jujitsu before 1882 the classical Japanese are of self-defense", the author states in the intro that the book's techniques come from Kaisho Goshin Budo Taiho Jitsu (Tokyo Police Self-Defense Martial Way Body Techniques). There are also several pictures Osaka police department in training.

I can't vouch for the accuracy of the book, but it may be a good place to start. The author does list some names of teachers and contact info.

IIRC, the book Keijutsukai Aikido by Thomas Makiyama covers a branch of Yoshinkan aikido used by police, although I've not been able to find a definition of Keijutsukai anywhere else.

Peter

PRehse
5th July 2001, 02:04
Originally posted by Don Cunningham
Japanese police are required to train in either judo or kendo. I've also heard that the National Police Department's riot squad takes a year of training in Yoshinkai (sp?) Aikido. Most major police departments have their own dojos for both martial arts.

Extra piece of info - the Osaka riot police are actually taught Shodokan Aikido - like Yoshinkan a style founded by a pre-war student of Ueshiba M.

In my time here I have seen far more police doing Kendo but that is probably because they do it so loudly. I've shared training facilities with them and you can't even here yourself think.

I heard mention that the Tokyo Airport police train in one of the Jo Koryu but I cna't confirm that.

dakotajudo
5th July 2001, 02:15
Originally posted by Don Cunningham
I've also heard that the National Police Department's riot squad takes a year of training in Yoshinkai (sp?) Aikido.

Is this the training described by Robert Twigger in "Angry White Pyjamas"?

And aren't I just the bibliophile in this thread!

Peter

PRehse
5th July 2001, 02:34
Why yes it is. There are some interesting comments of him and his book written by people who went through the course and also by a friend of mine who was one of the instructors while he was there.

I think the reviews are at www.aikiweb.com


Originally posted by dakotajudo


Is this the training described by Robert Twigger in "Angry White Pyjamas"?

And aren't I just the bibliophile in this thread!

Peter

dakotajudo
5th July 2001, 05:02
Originally posted by PRehse
Why yes it is. There are some interesting comments of him and his book written by people who went through the course and also by a friend of mine who was one of the instructors while he was there.

I think the reviews are at www.aikiweb.com



Cool. I might actually buy the book.

But most of the reviews seem to focus on whether Twigg actually learned aikido. For the purpose of this thread, can you comment on how accurately he portrayed police training?

How extensively are, in your opinion, Japanese police trained in the martial arts? Are Japanese police officers otherwise armed?

Peter

PRehse
5th July 2001, 05:40
Don who already contributed to the thread appears to be better qualified to answer the question and I think has done so pretty well.

At Shodokan Honbu I've trained with an ex-Israli army ranger, an ex-US marine, ex-member of the British TKD team (he was an alternate), and several Judo champions including a world. Don't know of one policeman - Shihan goes to them.

The time I shared training facilities was during an Aikido camp organized by my first dojo at Tsukuba University.

The cops carry guns.

They all look fitter than American cops especially the older ones but that may be due to a shortage of donut shops.

My impression is that the big thing about the Kendo training is to instil spirit. A lot of yelling. You can see the same thing at the High School next door - 7:30 am Kendo training begins - lots of yelling. I would not say that the average policeman is a skilled martial artist just as I would not say that the highschool graduate is. There is however a greater chance that they have some skill as opposed to an American cop.

I once had the opprotunity to observe and talk to the Japanese Royal Protection Squad during a visit of the Crown Prince and Princess to my work. These guys spend a significant amount of time training in a number of martial arts and to a man had that lean compact look that screams don't mess with me. Very well dressed and polite I might add.




Originally posted by dakotajudo


Cool. I might actually buy the book.

But most of the reviews seem to focus on whether Twigg actually learned aikido. For the purpose of this thread, can you comment on how accurately he portrayed police training?

How extensively are, in your opinion, Japanese police trained in the martial arts? Are Japanese police officers otherwise armed?

Peter

MarkF
5th July 2001, 10:26
I didn't think his posts would be forgotten so soon, but you could do a search here on e-budo, in the Judo and Aikido forums on the late Tim Burton's posts, and on Stephen Sweetlove's threads and posts. Both being police officers, and members of the European Association, you may just get the taste you are looking for.

Both are/were judoka, aikidoka, and also are members and teachers of the modern taiho jutsu association, particularly that of the European variety. Tournaments are a fairly regular part of this art, built on shodokan aikido and judo shiai.

I'm pretty confident that they represented the best of the taiho jujutsuka of modern times.

But taiho jutsu is an old term, going back quite a bit, from what I've read.

There was also talk, concerning the addition of a taihojutsu forum here on e-budo. With the current circumstances it will probably have to wait, but if Stephen is interested he could moderate such a forum or subforum. If you go to the Aikido forum, there are posts concerning establishing such a forum, but it wasn't clear in which forum, this subforum should be posted. CQC was mentioned while I thought, if there was enough interest, one in the aikido forum would probably work, too.

Keep it coming, and perhaps one can be created.

Mark

Don Cunningham
5th July 2001, 16:02
My experience is a few years old, but most Japanese police do not carry firearms. The riot police are usually armed with staffs, short like jo but much thicker and heavier than what I think of as a jo. In Tokyo where the crime rate is catching up with the rest of the world and in high security situations (airports, embassy, etc.), I noticed the police were frequently wearing sidearms.

However, the typical beat patrolman in the local business or residential police box was not armed. I guess they may have had firearms in their offices, but I wouldn't know about that. They typically carried expandable batons and handcuffs, but I've not seen them with any other weapons.

One thing I liked about Japan was the police box located in most every small section of Japanese cities. Since addresses are so confusing, even to the native Japanese, the local police officer is often called upon for directions. They also call on every resident in their section so they know who belongs and who doesn't, what each person's working hours are, etc. It's good for security, but it may be seen as intrusive by many.

Finally, even those police officers who are armed are not allowed to carry firearms when they go off duty. They have to keep them at their offices. I also noticed that Japanese police officers were nearly all physically fit, especially in comparison to U.S. policemen.

The situation was basically the same in Singapore, too. Many of the Singapore police are civilians performing their annual national duty, which makes it even more unusual since they are only policemen for a couple of months per year.

Stephenjudoka
5th July 2001, 18:36
Taiho Jutsu was taught to British Police Officers for over twenty years.
It was introduced into the country by Mr Brian Eustace 7th Dan (Tomiki) and recently promoted to 8th Dan Taiho Jutsu.
It was understood that almost any Martial Art can provide a basis for a Police arrest system. However certain arts are more adaptable than others.
The striking based arts are socially unsuitable for British Police use, whereas the old Japanese methods of grappling were found to be appropriate.
Taiho Jutsu applies leverage to the joints, permiting a controlled degree of force to be applied. Only the mildest forms of diversionary strikes are used.
We found that many martial arts had in fact become very stylised or had altered for sports purposes.

It was decided to find a system it must be teachable within a limited time and it must have a wide application.

The Police selected a mixed aikido and Judo based system.
It operates on the move. The attackers force is taken and extended, so he loses the initiative.
The system uses restraining locks whichk immobilise the wrist, elbow and shoulder joints.
Simple Judo throws and groundwork are taught.
It was noted many scuffles result in both parties falling to the ground so the groundwork system is aimed at getting the officer to think in the prone position.
I think it is a masterpiece of organisation, using a series of interlocking techniques. All superflous techniques have been pruned away and what remains is capable of wide application despite a short period of training.
The system is not only unarmed but also teaches the use of short and long batons.

Many top Martial Artists presented their arts to the Home Office but in the end Taiho Jutsu was chosen to be the most suitable for the Police.

Several years ago after the introduction of new handcuffs, sprays and batons the British Police updated its safety programme and dropped Taiho Jutsu and replaced it with defensive tactics.
However many officers had become very good at Taiho Jutsu and decided to keep it alive and formed the British Taiho Jutsu Association.
Taiho Jutsu before this was only taught to the Police and Military now it has been opened to others.
It flourishes in the UK and tournaments are held regulary.
The best person to answer most of your questions is Brian Eustace (Who is over 70 years old but still very mobile and profficient). He knows the complete history of Taihu Jutsu.

Stephen Sweetlove

JAMJTX
6th April 2003, 07:36
"Japan's Ultimate Martial Art: Jujitsu Before 1882" is probably the best source for information.
Sensei Craig learned "Taihojitsu" at the Tokyo Police department. Specifically at Kaisho.
Here, the officers learn Yoshinkan Aikido and Kodokan Judo, in addition to other Jujitsu techniques and other arts like hojojitsu.
To my knowledge no one gets a rank certificate that reads "Taihojitsu". The ranks are in Aikido and Judo, etc.
Taihojitsu is a generic reference to police martial arts, specifically arrest and control techniques.
Sensei Craig has been affiliated with the Tokyo Police for nearly 30 years. Several of the top instructors (and even Police Chiefs and Assistant Chiefs) visit his dojo to teach clinics. Also, while I was at the Houston Budokan, Houston Police officers from the dojo made a trip to train at the Kaisho dojo.

Jim Mc Coy