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John Lindsey
7th July 2000, 13:41
I once had a student who had lost the use of one arm due to a motorcyle accident. He was interested in learning to use a sword, and thus we had to augment the training to fit his situation. Has anyone ever had this experience as well? And for those with experience in Japan, have you come across this or know of any Japanese budoka who were handicapped and yet became skilled in their own "way?"

Neil Hawkins
8th July 2000, 01:01
John, I have known both blind and wheelchair bound people who trained in Jujutsu, but have not seen weapons arts taught to the physically handicapped.

I am intrigued that a man with one arm could wield a katana effectively, how did you modify the techniques to suit his capabilities?

How did he manage to control the cuts and deflections? Obviously he would have well defined muscles in his good arm but surely control was the hardest element to achieve.

Neil

Ruediger
8th July 2000, 18:16
Hi,

in 1994 i saw a guy performing his nidan test in Aikido( or was it sandan... can't remember )at the Takeda Ryu Nakamura Ha Hombu Dojo in Tokyo. He had just one arm, but he does the same as all the other candidate.
For weapon training: i think you are able to handle some weapons also if you are handicapped, but it is hard for me to imagine that you can proper work with the katana with just one arm.
A few years ago i've seen a tv-documentation about a german judo teacher. This guy started a judo class with handicapped (blind) and non-handicapped children. I was very impressed about the skill of this children. They did also randori with their comrades and it seems that they had a lot of fun.

Best regards

Ruediger Meier

Kolschey
9th July 2000, 02:44
I would imagine that one of the difficulties would be in drawing the sword. If it is a katana, then it must pose a challenge in clearing the saya without the benefit of two hands. I would love to know how this may be done.

Matthew W. Luedke
9th July 2000, 16:32
Here's a thought: are any of E-Budo's members Occupational Therapists? These people are trained to deal with the elderly and incapacitated, trying to come up with clever methods of helping disabled folks circumvent their physical limitations. They are different from physical therapists, in that they don't deal with the physical or mental rehabilitation aspects so much as they deal with helping people cope with work and other more banal, but none-the-less important aspects of daily life. And some of them, in particular, are absolute geniuses at devising little tools to help people accomplish tasks.

Anyhow, would it not be interesting to get an occupational therapist to take a close look at the issues brought up in this discussion? For example, I think some occupational therapists would jump at the challenge of figuring out a way for a student missing his left arm to be able to manipulate his saya. Moreover, I think this would have an added advantage of helping the disabled student adjust to the demands of the art, as opposed to having the art adjust to the demands of the student (Dave Lowry wrote an excellent essay on this duality in his "Excess Baggage" chapter in _Moving Towards Stillness_). It would be fealsible that an occupational therapist could devise a method where the student could manipulate the saya with no compramise in the technical details of the draw. I'm sure other disabilities could be dealt with too.

Anyhow, further consider the prospect of an occupational therapist who is also a martial artist? Combining the professional training of the occupational therapist with the intense kinesthetic and psychomotor understanding developed by a committed martial artist, and you could have an individual with absoultely oustanding ability in his or her vocation for assisting those with physical disability.

I'll leave with a quote that I think kind of applies to this situation: "...The true science of martial arts means practicing them in such a way that they will be useful at any time, and to teach them in such a way that they will be useful in all things."--Miyamoto Musashi, _The Book of Five Rings_, Thomas Cleary trans.

Gordon Smith
9th July 2000, 21:17
Then there was a guy at the NY seminar, who managed to work iai with only one leg. I wish I had been able to see him more, and talk with him. To be able to overcome those challenges and continue to train is inspiring!

-G-

FastEd
9th July 2000, 22:49
Hey there Gordon Smith,
Unfortunetly I was only there on Sunday, I would have liked to have shown up for the whole weekend ..but the better half had other ideas..!
As for this discussion, hmmm, I guess I really don't see the big deal. Yes its tough to do Iaido on one leg, but then again I think its tough to do Iaido period! When you want to discuss issues related to disabled people you have to realize the shear variety of disabilities. No disability is the same, and individuals both percieve and deal with their disability differently. I don't think there is one way of dealing with a student who has a disability, and no prescription for over coming difficulties or obstacles. If you want to do something just do it, after trying, you will know if its going to workout or not. For myself, I know that I just want to be like everyone else, no special treatment please. As for the teacher, I expect them to understand my ability and be able to properly interpret my needs and requirments.
Well, I don't know what else to say, I suppose all that matters to me is that my IAI looks right, its strong, powerful, with no openings. And on that note I would also point out that by intrepreting Iaido in this fashion there is no need for "special catagories" if disabled people wish to compete.
Ed Chart

John Lindsey
9th July 2000, 23:57
Interesting stuff so far....

But, it got me thinking about how disabilities are seen in Japan with martial arts in general. Does Japanese culture openly embrace the disabled or do they generally suggest that "maybe they should do something else?"

On a related note, I think it was Diane Skoss who once said here that the reason you don't see a lot of older women in budo is that it is generally thought of as something women do in their youth, but go on to other things in adulthood.

One last thought...all swordsmen are one cut away from having one functional arm..in a real situation at least.

FastEd
10th July 2000, 01:27
Based only on what I have read and have been told by Japanese friends, disabled people are a invisible class in Japanese society. Rarely seen in public, and ignored by government. I think this is changing slowly, especially with the greater exposure disabled people are recieving in the West.
I have seen three instances were some level of exposure was given to disabled Japanese individuals in some form or other. One was of a older Japanese women who had lost a leg due to one of the nuclear bombs drop during WW2. She was interviewed, I beleive by 60 minutes, and was shown talking to young japanese children about the the war. The second was of a young Japanese high student (male) who was doing kendo with only one arm. He was very good, and I believe he was his high school team captain. He talked about how his mother forced him to do kendo, and how he felt very uncomfortable amongst his fellow players. I will see if I can find the tape so as to provide a better synopsis later. The last instance was an article in the Kendo Nippon magazine. There was a picture of an American kendo player with no legs competing in the World kendo championships. I believe he was with the Hawaiian kendo team, and I apologize but I cannot remember his name.
I would also suggest that it is just as interesting to explore the perceptions of disabled people in the martial arts here in the West.
My opinion on this, is that most teachers and fellow martial artists view disabled people doing martial arts, differently then their able bodied counter parts. People like to see that disabled people have the option of doing martial arts, however, when it comes to competition, promotion or the actual application of what they are being taught, the options begin to narrow. The best thing about the martial arts that I do, and the one reason why I still practice, is that they have not followed the Special Olympic's pattern of seperating people out by "ability".

Kolschey
10th July 2000, 01:47
Here's an interesting piece of animation history that might have some bearing on the subject of Japanese perceptions of body image. During the eighties, most people in America were introduced to the "California Raisins", a group of Claymation figures that sang Marvin Gaye's "Heard it through the Grapevine". This was considered to be a well recievied ad campaign, complete with a popular line of tee-shirts, figurines, etc. Believing that it would be a hit in Japan, where animation is a very popular art form, they released a similar campaign overseas.
It was a marketing disaster.
Apparently, the raisin figures have only three fingers on their hands. This method of armature facilitates animation greatly, but this difference in physignomy was considered disturbing to many Japanese viewers, particularly children. I do not know whether this was exacerbated by the medium of Claymation, which has a certain physicality which you do not find in 2D cell animation. I cannot help but wonder how "Chicken Run" will be recieved in Japan, given the particular proportions of Nick Park's animated characters...

FastEd
15th July 2000, 06:13
For the people who are reading this thread, I'm curious as to your opinions on how disabled people should be treated in the martial arts.
-Should their be any distinctions made between able bodied and disabled students when doing martial sports (competition) and more traditional practices (non-competitive gendai arts and koryu)..?

As second point of discussion, I would like to mull over the idea that some martial arts are more "do-able" for disabled people then others. This of course depends on the type of disability you are considering, lets consider them all, and just break them down by class (I'm not shure classification is all that useful..but let see).

A proposed classification scheme:
Impairment cross referenced with most suitable martial arts?
1)Mental:
1.1) Intellectual Impairment(Any art with straight forward simple kata with limited emphasis on spiritual philisophical aspects)
1.2) Emotional Impairment(Any art- with emphasis on character building)

2)Physical:
2.1) Visual Impairment: 2.11)Blind(Any art- with emphasis on close quarter hand to hand)
2.12)Partially Blind(Any art)
2.2) Hearing Impairment(any art)
2.3) Mobility Impairment:
2.31)Upper extremity (Arts with emphasis on leg technique)
2.32)Lower extremity (Arts with emphasis on upper body technique)

This is just preliminary by the way..any thoughts..?

ed chart

Joseph Svinth
15th July 2000, 06:59
Ed --

Emotional impairment and character could be hard to quantify. I mean, just look at all those Congressmen who do TKD with Jhoon Rhee. And look at the folks ranked 10-dan, too. A few are good examples, but most? Goodness.

On a purely physical level, a man with hooks rather than hands has some advantages in punching arts. After all, hooks are truncheons. Pain compliance techniques are different, too.

Now, my devil's advocate horns are out, so here goes -- perhaps we all have handicaps? One person is not too bright; another is too bright for her own good. (In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed are typically stoned to death.) This person has the tools but no work ethic; that person has the work ethic but no talent at all. Etc.

So what does this mean? I've seen guys with artificial legs wrestling and skiing and climbing mountains. They may not have been world-class, but they were a lot better than I. Until the 1950s, professional boxers were never hard to find; they didn't start that way, they just ended up that way, and blind, some of them were still better boxers than their opposition. Bad knees or back? Give up the takedown and become very good at newaza.

Admittedly, a very low IQ is a serious handicap, and I don't know how to fix that, but short of that the athlete simply needs to find a niche and make it his/her own. If this is true, then the trick to success is to find one's own niche, and then master it. Thus, rather than complaining about what we don't have, learn to do the best we can with what we do have.

What we might do, though, is redefine "winning." For example, at Olympic levels, everybody but the one guy who gets the gold is a loser. That's a rough world in which to live, and the ego required to do well in it is a handicap to personal relationships.

FastEd
15th July 2000, 07:59
Originally posted by Joseph Svinth
Ed --



Now, my devil's advocate horns are out, so here goes -- perhaps we all have handicaps?

So what does this mean? I've seen guys with artificial legs wrestling and skiing and climbing mountains. They may not have been world-class, but they were a lot better than I.

Admittedly, a very low IQ is a serious handicap, and I don't know how to fix that, but short of that the athlete simply needs to find a niche and make it his/her own. If this is true, then the trick to success is to find one's own niche, and then master it. Thus, rather than complaining about what we don't have, learn to do the best we can with what we do have.



I don't disagree, we all have our limitations...true, and I completely agree that in the end it is up to the individual to find and practice what ever is most comfortable.

I would hypothesis, that when the visibly disabled are interested in doing a martial art, the first thing they do before choosing is assess their own ability to preform, what they precieve, are the requirements for a specific art.

Now imagine all the problems associated with task. Trying to making an informed choice, especially from the perspective of a beginner (disabled or not):
How on earth can they properly assess their own ability when they understand so little about what is really required and important. This being a direct result of the distorted perception of various martial arts pervasive in the media.

I don't know, I'd like to think that part of empowering people is providing them with freedom of choice, but disability limits choice. So how do you fairly assess their limits? Or on the other hand, how far would you be willing to accomodate them?

..hmmm..
ed chart

Joseph Svinth
15th July 2000, 10:07
Ed --

My personal axe -- while there are limitations (a sumo-sized guy probably will not do flying side kicks right off the bat), in general the instructor fails the student more than the student fails the material. "I teach a class this way, fit in!" says the instructor, and while that makes life very comfortable for the instructor, it doesn't do much for helping someone be all s/he can be.

Life is a handicap, too. One student his sixties had never done anything physical in his life, but he was coming along well until killed in a car wreck. I had a much younger student who was probably the best tournament player in the area until she broke her neck during a (separate) car wreck. One former student needs a liver transplant and has recently made it on the short list. A current student has Krohn's disease and another is in cancer remission. The class is kicked back and we laugh and have a good time. Why not? We're in good shape, for the shape we're in. Karate for middle-aged people is, IMHO, a different thing than it is for kids or college students or Olympic athletes. Each program is different; each teacher is different; but each student is unique.

Not a very lucrative concept, treating every student like an individual instead of "You, blue belt, stand straight!" But I think it is the one the handicapped (and this definitely includes the physically or emotionally challenged) student requires.

[Edited by Joseph Svinth on 07-26-2000 at 05:29 PM]

FastEd
26th July 2000, 23:06
Originally posted by Joseph Svinth
Ed --
Life is a handicap, too.


Karate for middle-aged people is, IMHO, a different thing than it is for kids or college students or Olympic athletes. Each program is different; each teacher is different; but each student is unique.


Thats an excellent point, and one I have heard from my teacher as well. In my case it was in reference to, various Kendo and Iai sensei of advanced age. It really comforts me too know that as I age I don't have to worry about the changes this may require to my style.

ed

Neil Hawkins
27th July 2000, 08:42
I recently found out that Gordon Warner, who wrote Japanese Swordsmanship with Draeger had only one leg (at least that's what it says in Martial Musings by Robert W. Smith). He lived and trained in Japan for many years so they must have accepted him.

I don't know much about him, can anybody provide more info.

Regards
Neil