More Kosho Shorei Kempo questions

[zach]

Upon reading the thread on Kosho Shorei Kempo something occured to me, ive formed an opinion on it when I really shouldn't have, my opinion has been solely based on the opinions of more knowledgable martial artists than myself, some on here, some not.

Now, ive heard (usually used as evidence of the Okinawan ma connection) that Kosho Shorei Kempo actually practices Shuri-te and Tomari-te kata, is this true, and if so, how true? Meaning how close are these kata as to what were practiced in Shuri -te in the time frame of the formation of KSK? Other than that..what is this style? All the web pages Ive seen are very vague, and I would be interested in learning what the actually techniques of this system are like, ive heard everything from the Okinawan thing (heard this from a variety of people) to something similar to Aikijutsu, which at first glance, seems somewhat confusing to me. So anyway, could someone give me a vague outline of this styles 'curriculum' for lack of a better word?


-Zach Zinn

[komatsujin]

Hello Zach,

You don't know how releiving it is to hear someone admit that their current opinion is based largely upon what has been presented as fact in the main stream. Bless you. I'm not at all saying that they(whom ever they may be) are entirely wrong all of the time. However it is absolutely true that if people are better or more successful at pedling their stories on the internet, then it dosn't take long before what they are saying becomes accepted as a fact. The stories of Kosho Ryu and James Mitose are definately a prime example of this.

On another note. You asked about kata. The truth is that Mitose himself ,although very well versed in kata did, did not emphisize kata training to his students. In his first book(What is Self-defense, Kempo Jujutsu) he mentioned some of the more important methods of training. Kata, waza, bunkai, and jutsu-te(real combat). Kata, he actually refured to as keiko which he defined as "tactical drills" this is what he considered the Japanese equivalent of Okinawan kata. This of course shows how little he knew about Okinawan martial arts. There are only a few kata(keiko) indigenous to Kosho Ryu and they do not resemble historical karate much at all(when done properly). I am sure all of the readers are aware of the training levels used in many of the old Japanese martial arts ie; Shoden, Chuden, Okuden, Kuden, etc... With all do respect to those who studied under Mitose in Hawaii, no one received more than initiate level training(with one or two exceptions). This is a very important level of training, however quite often it does not contain any of the "RYUGI". These of course can be loosely defined as the the irreducible signature methods and teachings of a ryuha.

Were am I going with all of this? I'll start by giving an example;

Muso Shinden Ryu(or for that matter Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu)

A common rank examination for practioners wishing to receive shodan in either one of these ryuha is what?

Answer - a demonstration of the Omori ryu kata series(which is all they have been learning up until then).

My point is that by the time that you acheive black belt level in either one of these arts how much of the true main line Hayashizaki Ryu have you studied? NONE YET! That's because up until that time you had yet to be initiated.

When James Mitose retired from teaching in Hawaii in his own words it was because he tried to introduce them to some of the upper teachings, but they were unable, or unwilling to learn. Much of what Mitose Sensei taught in Hawaii were fundamental striking, kicking, locking, throwing, kata, waza, bunkai etc... As I mentioned earlier, Mitose Sensei could demonstrate kata from various arts at will. However, he gave two very good reasons for this. Most importantly he told us to practice various kata to honor the masters who took the time to create them. He also mentions in his second book(What is true Self-defense) that his ancestors studied many different arts and their methods in order to learn how to defend against them(not to mention ,I'm sure, to learn their secrets).

It is for this as well as many other reasons that we(the Sei Kosho Shorei Kai) now practice the kata of many different martial arts, and not exclusively Okinawan either. In an interview with Bruce Haines Mitose went well out of his way to explain that although the Kempo of Kosho Ryu and Okinawan Karate both had the same historical source (chuan fa), they did develope into different arts. He points out that one of the more obvious(and less physical)differences was that his ancestors continued with the religious and philosophical aspects as well as the martial understandings. Though the physical differences are considerable as well.

More to come. Hope this helped.

-Michael Brown

[Rob Alvelais]

Originally posted by komatsujin
Hello Zach,



More to come. Hope this helped.

-Michael Brown

Great post.

What kata did Mr. Mitose teach? Were they ones that we can find in Okinawan Karate? Which did he consider as a main part of his system and not simply ones acquired so that he could learn the secrets of other systems?

Rob

[komatsujin]

Hi Rob,

You asked;

-What kata did Mr. Mitose teach? Were they ones that we can find in Okinawan Karate?

As far a I know Nai Hanchi was the main, if not the only kata that he taught on a regular basis in his classes in Hawaii. I'm not entirely sure if this is correct. He did exchange kata with his friend Robert Trias who visited with Mitose on numerous occasions. This might very well be where Mitose received most of his kata training(which would also explain the seeming emphisis on Okinawan karate-like kata). This is almost definately where most of the inaccuracies concerning Mitose's art come from. This is one of the big questions that I was going to ask Paul Yamaguchi Sensei about. He was up here in the North East at the end of July, but I didn't get to make the seminar. However, as Yamaguchi Sensei was one of the last people to receive Shodan From Mitose(after Mitose retired), he very well might not know either.


-Which did he consider as a main part of his system and not simply ones acquired so that he could learn the secrets of other systems?

The kata which he did not teach in Hawaii were not realy kata at all but keiko. I mention this again because one of the superficial diferences between the two is that kata usually had significant names where keiko were just drills that ,if they had names at all, they might be something very simple(ex. of a keiko- "happo giri"which just means 8 directional cuts).

Within the Sei Kosho Shorei Kai we have three clasifications of kata;
1) indigenous Kosho Ryu kata(keiko).
2) modern Kosho kata. These are non-historical kata that were either created by Mitose himself or by Juchnik Sensei with or w/out the direction of Mitose(I say this because Mitose did direct Bruce Juchnik to create certain kata).
3) non-indigenous kata. These are the ones most people see us do(which explains much of the controversy). This is because in general the indigenous Kosho kata are not seen or discussed with students in the early to mid-level of their training. This list of kata is constantly being updated and added to. Mitose taught us never to be ignorant to the teachings of great masters. If you were to see these kata being demonstrated the physical qualities displayed as well as the bunkai may reflect the signature methods and teachings of Kosho ryu.

still more to come,

-Michael Brown

[komatsujin]

Hello Kevin,

I truly appreciate your etiquette, but Mike or Komatsujin will be fine. I don't believe that titles or ranks should play a role here. Perhaps I'll be seeing yoou soon when you return to Roger Williams College?

Anyway, let me lay some ground work toward your questions.

There are a few things that you have to keep in mind when talking about Mitose Sensei and what he was able to transmit to others(Bruce Juchnik Hanshi)while he was in prison. Most people think that there were no physical things that could be taught under those conditions. This is however quite untrue. The best words to use concerning physical/combative interactions were that they were limited but, only limited. Another thing to keep in mind is that Mitose(and everyone else for that matter)thought that he might be getting out some time soon. Why did Mitose choose Bruce Juchnik? The two big reasons are probably;
1) Bruce Juchnik was raised by his parents in a some what religious home and taught to believe in GOD and respect his elders. This dosn't sound like much to some, but to a traditional Japanese this is extremely important(especially respect for your elders).
2) Bruce Juchnik had been studying the martial arts for many years(also kempo). Most importantly this meant that he knew how to be a good student, but also he had been doing, at least, the fundamentals for quite some time. Which = SHODEN

My point is that most of the time spent between the two was usually spent on CHUDEN and OKUDEN level concepts, principles, and strategies. The kata(keiko) we did get came through Mitose himself to Bruce Juchnik. This is not that hard to believe as George Santana, the prison guard who introduced the two(and also was a student of Bruce Juchnik), was there. Incidentely he can also verify much of what was going on between them as well. With regards to Robert Trias Sensei. He received from Mitose a series of three kata that he called Neko Buto keiko(cat dance kata). According to Trias, Mitose created these kata in honor of Yamaguchi Gogen Sensei(the cat). Mitose considered him to be a great man as well as a friend. A fact verified by Mr. Anton Krooky, who was one of the mid-official self-defense club black belts under Mitose Sensei. In an interview with Bruce Juchnik(available thru the SKSKI) he tells the story of when he had to leave Hawaii for a time to be stationed in Japan(he was a Navy officer). He received a letter of introduction/recomondation from Mitose writen in Japanese to Yamaguchi Sensei. Mitose claimed that armed with this letter he would be able to continue his martial arts training at Yamaguchi Sensei's dojo. Mr. Krooky said that he did indeed go to Mr. Yamaguchi's dojo with that letter and presented it to Yamaguchi Sensei. According to Mr. Krooky, Yamaguchi Sensei recognized Mitose as a great master and said that he was welcome in his dojo.

WOW CAN I RAMBLE! HUH.

Sorry if I didn't get far enough into your question. I've got to get back to the dojo(work).

-Michael Brown

[Squallie]

Hello Mr. Brown ,

I have been following the Kosho forums on E-Budo for some time now and i was interested in how you would deal with those that claim Mitose Sensei added the Shorei to the Kosho name in honor of his time studied with Motobu Sensei in Japan .. I understand this is a multiple part question as some dispute his time actually spent with Motobu Sensei in Japan...and their family relationship, if there was a family bond.. but if you could start to answer this question I would truely appreciate it.


Many thanks,

G. Harrington

[komatsujin]

Hello Mr. Harrington,

You asked a very hotly debated question;

"how you would deal with those that claim Mitose Sensei added the Shorei to the Kosho name in honor of his time studied with Motobu Sensei in Japan?"

- Those who are making this arguement have not taken the time to study the Japanese writen language. The two Japanese kanji that make up the word "shorei" in Okinawa Shorei Ryu are completely different from those used by Mitose Sensei. According to Mitose(which of course presupposes that you will accept his reasoning), the word "shorei" as used by his ancestors means "spiritual calling". They can also be interpreted "encouragement". Devine encouragement to be exact. You see Mitose claimed that his family art was devinely inspired. This is very common among Japanese koryu.

- My second point would be that in Okinawa the term Shorei ryu is not linked at all with Choki Motobu, but insted it is a alternate term used for the Naha-te grouping of martial arts(as opposed to the Shuri-te and Tomari-te). It's interesting to note that although Motobu Sensei had studied with a few teachers and a few different arts, the Naha-te(Shorei ryu) probably wasn't one of them.

- My third point would be that Mitose used the term Kosho Shorei Ryu as early as 1939 when he taught the ROTC at the University of Hawaii. Even before he ever used the term Kosho Ryu Kempo in Hawaii. I would use this aginst the idea that Mitose added shorei to the name later in his life.

- My fourth point, which I just learned, would be that Motobu's son Chosei was just at "The Gathering Of Eagles" where he not only denied that there was any relation between the two or their families, but that as far as he knew, they never knew each other. Obviously this dosn't prove that Mitose wasn't influenced by Motobu's teachings, but hek for that matter it also dosn't prove that Motobu wasn't influenced by Mitose's teachings!

- My fifth point ,if that is not enough, would be that James Masayoshi Mitose never denied his love, respect, relationship or otherwise concerning anyone. Quite the contrary. He spoke very highly about many great martial artists including; Morihei Ueshiba, Gogen Yamaguchi, Hironori Ohtsuka, Yasushiro Konishi, as well as some of the legendary masters such as; Kami izumi ise no kami, and Tsukahara Bokuden etc... Mitose spoke of these men often. There is no reason to beleive that he would not do the same for Motobu.

The fact of the matter is that nothing Mitose Sensei did was Okinawan martial art other than the fact that he practiced some of the clasical Okinawan karate kata. This alone does not add up to much. Much less, Mitose studying practicing and teaching Okinawan Karate.

I hope this answers your great question.

- Michael Brown

[Kaijin]

Brown Sensei - (Hajimemashita)

Thank you for the depth of information that you are bringing to this thread. And thank you to all others for insightful questions and critical thinking - it is the only true path to wisdom.

Will all of these topics be visited in <I>"Evidence that demands a verdict, The case for Kosho Ryu"</I>? It seems like these are issues that the prospective practitioner of Kosho Ryu becomes involved with rather quickly, and would need supporting evidence for whatever conclusions we draw. It certainly looks like you have done this already - and in doing so, you have invigorated my desire to trace the roots of Kosho Ryu. Secondly, what is the timeframe on this work?

Domo arigato gozaimashita,

James Leatherman
Albany, NY

[komatsujin]

Hi James,

Do itashimasu(you're welcome). Thanks for the question. Please don't get me in trouble with the powers that be. E-Budo rules state "Blatant commercial advertising is not allowed". GOD I hope that this doesn't fall into that category!...but if it does I'm very sorry.

As my book is historical research based it's almost impossible to give any more than a rough time frame. Unfortunately, as anyone out there who has done any historical research knows, nothing comes quickly or without a fight. As time goes on people who knew something important pass away, papers get lost, and some times people just plain old don't cooperate. Japan is particularly dificult in the area of historical research. Very dificult even when you are there(esspecialy if your not Japanese), almost impossible if you live outside of Japan and have a wife, baby, and and a group of students waiting at the door of your dojo every day and night. Make no mistake about it, the case I'm going to make for Kosho Ryu will never prove beyond a shadow of a doubt. However, part of making a strong case for Kosho Ryu will undoubtably and unfortunately have to include a comparison of evidences between Kosho and numerous well accepted historical koryu. My reason for doing this will not be to make a weaker case for these ryuha, but rather to enlighten people to the fact that most ryuha that claim pre-Tokugawa(circa1603) origins are virtualy impossible to prove historically. That is to say that they more often than not rely on secondary forms of evidence rather than primary forms. Example- a post Tokugawa document mentioning the name of a particular ryuha. This is in my opinion strong evidence, none the less it is considered secondary evidence.

My method will be to almost put the art of Kosho Ryu on trial, And you the reader will be almost like a jury member.

History is in the past. And unfortunately the best that anyone can ever hope to achieve would be to present a reasonable and logical argument for Kosho Ryu as compared with other accepted, but questionable koryu history. When all is said and done it will still be up to the reader as to the verdict they reach. One thing will certainly be clear, any open minded person when faced with the evidence will be able to make an informed opinion for themselves.

All that I 'm really hoping for is that the art of Kosho Ryu be given the same treatement as some other arts that are, shall we say in question.

-Michael Brown

[zach]

Thanks for the info, this is a good thread. So, bascially do you hold the belief then that Mitose learned his Okinawa kata from Trias, or from some other source? Either way far as I can tell your'e acknowledging that thought the kata are clearly of Okinawan origin, they were taught differently right?


The 'Shorei' issue puts me in mind of another puzzling question ive been wondering about, Komatsujin. This may not be directly your area of expertise, but if you know please fill me in. You stated in an earlier post that 'Shorei' typically reffered to the Nahate styles in Okinawan MA, everything i've always been told backs this up, but one discrepancy sticks out to me; in Funakoshi's Karatedo Kyohan, he refers to a number of kata as being from the 'Shorei Ryu', Naihanchi and Seisan spring to mind. Now, is this bad terminology on Funakoshi's part (this seems unlikely), or is it possible that there was a tradition reffered to as 'Shorei Ryu' or somesuch that predated what we know today as the Nahate style? Anyone having info on this, it would be appreciated, ive been puzzled about this one for a while.

-Zach Zinn

[Rob Alvelais]

Originally posted by zach
Thanks for the info, this is a good thread. So, bascially do you hold the belief then that Mitose learned his Okinawa kata from Trias, or from some other source? Either way far as I can tell your'e acknowledging that thought the kata are clearly of Okinawan origin, they were taught differently right?


The 'Shorei' issue puts me in mind of another puzzling question ive been wondering about, Komatsujin. This may not be directly your area of expertise, but if you know please fill me in. You stated in an earlier post that 'Shorei' typically reffered to the Nahate styles in Okinawan MA, everything i've always been told backs this up, but one discrepancy sticks out to me; in Funakoshi's Karatedo Kyohan, he refers to a number of kata as being from the 'Shorei Ryu', Naihanchi and Seisan spring to mind. Now, is this bad terminology on Funakoshi's part (this seems unlikely), or is it possible that there was a tradition reffered to as 'Shorei Ryu' or somesuch that predated what we know today as the Nahate style? Anyone having info on this, it would be appreciated, ive been puzzled about this one for a while.

-Zach Zinn


Pardon the intrusion, since you directed the question to Komatsujin. The Shorei terminology as used by Funakoshi, was indeed bad terminology on Funakoshi's part. Many of the kata that he classified as Shorei are actually shorin kata. Nifanchi, for example does not appear in the syllabi of the Higaonna descended styles (except Shito Ryu, which gets the kata from Itosu) or Ryuei Ryu or Uechi Ryu. The only kata that Shotokan has that is potentially Shorei Ryu aren't classified as such by Funakoshi: (Unsu and Nijushiho) since these two are purported to be kata from Seisho Arakaki that perhaps Funakoshi got from Azato. The JKA acknowledges the source of these kata, for them, as Kenwa Mabuni. In Shito ryu, these kata are sometimes classified as Arakaki-ha or Higaonna-ke (Arakaki was Kanryu Higaonna's first teacher).


As for Mr. Trias teaching Okinawan kata, I find that a stretch. (No disrespect intended towards Mr. Trias). I'm fairly familiar with Shuri Ryu, and the kata of the style resembles JKA Shotokan kata, as opposed to the Okinawan progenitors. The stances and embusen of the Shuri Ryu Bassai Dai or Kanku Sho or Empi-sho closely resemble their JKA analogs, with the exception of some minor directional shifts. It's also interesting to note the use of Funakoshi's names for these kata: Kanku instead of Kosokun, Empi instead of Wanshu. Mr. Trias claime, in his book, "The Pinnacle of Karate" that one of his teachers is Makoto Gima, so this could explain these kata. Nonetheless, the kata don't appear to be Okinawan, but rather more like their Japanese counterparts.

Rob

[komatsujin]

Hi Zach,

You're right that this has been a great thread. I hope the questions and comments keep on coming.

You asked;
"do you hold the belief then that Mitose learned his Okinawa kata from Trias, or from some other source?"
- To be honest I'm still researching this area, but in general I tend to hold to both ideas. That being that Mitose probably learned most of his Okinawan kata from Trias, but leaving alot of room for the idea that he may very well have learned them elswhere. I would just be carefull not to read to much into that. As I have mentioned in one of my earlier posts I always go back to the idea that Mitose Sensei taught kata in Hawaii just as a method of transmitting the basics. Most people far over estimate the degree to which kata was practiced and taught by Mitose.

With respect to the more in-depth areas of Okinawan martial art history, in particular the history of the term "shorei ryu", you were quite right when you said "This may not be directly your area of expertise". I would imagine that there are quite a few people on this forum who know alot about this topic. Perhaps we will hear from them soon. Wtih respect to Mitose Sensei and the Kosho Ryu. I tend to take Mitose for what he said, and that is that the words "Kosho Shorei" are both nessesary in order to understand the original story of the history of the art.

The words "Kosho Shorei" refur to the divine revelation received under the old pine tree. It was this event from which the art was named. Contrary to popular belief, Kosho Shorei Ryu actually pre-dates the art of Kosho Ryu Kempo. Kempo is part of the curriculum taught within the ryu, which was added some time just before the begining of the Tokugawa period(circa 1603). It's interesting to note that many koryu added the practice of kempo to their curriculum around the same time period. It is generaly accepted that samurai clans that were returning from Korea and China in the mid to late 1590's may very well have brought back knowlege of kempo. This story just happens to be almost verbatum from the interview between Mitose Sensei and Bruce Haines in his book "KARATE'S HISTORY AND TRADITIONS". Something very interesting about that interview is that Mitose was asked specifically about the history of Kosho Ryu Kempo. There is no mention here about Kosho Shorei Ryu. This happens to be a completely different history than Mitose tells every other place. This is not Mitose contradicting himself. This is simply the fact that Kosho Ryu Kempo has a completely different history than Kosho Shorei Ryu. I would imagine that if you asked Seki Humitake Sensei about the history of Kashima Shin Ryu Kempo he would probably give a story quite different than the history of the Kashima Shin Ryu. If I'm wrong about this I hope that Carl Friday Sensei will forgive me.

-Michael Brown

[komatsujin]

Hey Zach,

Remember when I said;
"With respect to the more in-depth areas of Okinawan martial art history, in particular the history of the term "shorei ryu", you were quite right when you said "This may not be directly your area of expertise". I would imagine that there are quite a few people on this forum who know alot about this topic. Perhaps we will hear from them soon."

BOOM Before I could finish my post Rob comes through with a great post. THANKS ROB!

-Michael Brown

[koshoT]

Hello Shihan Brown.
Hi Kevin and James, and everyone else.

Thank you very much for the information that you have been posting on the history of Kosho Shorei Ryu. I am very excited about reading your book.

I am a new Kosho Ryu student (under Sensei DiSarro)and I was wondering if you wouldn't mind answering some questions. In Hanshi Juchnik's Intro tape he says that the art of Kosho Shorei Ryu was developed by a man named Eizon Bosatsu, around 1235 A.D. How much do we know about Eizon Bosatsu? Also, did he create the Mon, or was that created later? Any information that you could give me I would greatly appreciate.
Thank you.

Tom Berkery
Latham, NY

[komatsujin]

Hello Tom,

Good luck in your studies. Disarro Sensei is a very good teacher. Next month should start the Kosho Ryu Heiho Tojutsu course. Which kicks off with a seminar at your school. I'm looking forward to teaching it. Perhaps I'll see you there.

You asked about "Eisai" or "Kosho Bosatsu". These may very well be two different men. You must first understand that our knowlege about the foundation of the art is quite limited. For that matter the knowlege surrounding the foundation of almost all pre-Tokugawa bugei is quite limited as well. Writings from that time period concerning martial arts, or even particular people, are some what scarce. "Kosho Bosatsu" simply means,the old pine tree budha, or it can also be rendered "the budha Kosho"(Kosho here not implying anything but the persons name). As far as the priest name Eizon is concerned. This teaching comes from verbal transmission. The problem with that is that Mitose's English wasn't very good and quite often(in interviews and articles) people mis-write or mis-interpret his words. A problem that Mitose was very aware of(he carried a dictionary around with him all the time). I'm speculating here, but it is possible that the name Eizon could have actually been Eisai.
The Eisai who brought Rinzai Zen to Japan in 1197.

Why I believe this is because Mitose truly believed that Daruma himself was his ancestor, in a religious lineage sort of a way. Not to mention Linchi (Rinzai himself). Two men who received full page pictures in Mitose's first book. Eisai is considered to be the founder of the Japanese branch of Rinzai zen, this is very important to my reasoning. In an interview with the Honolulu Advertiser in 1953 Mitose claimed that his family art was not a martial art at all, but an obscure sect of zen based on the Rinzai sect which included martial arts in it's teachings.

This can help to explain why it is seldom listed anywhere in martial arts oriented circles.

Kosho Bosatsu may have been Mitose's ancestor who founded this particular sect at the Shaka-in temple. This fits very well with the ,sort of vague, history stories given by Mitose.

Great question!

-Michael Brown

[zach]

Originally posted by Rob Alvelais


Funakoshi: (Unsu and Nijushiho) since these two are purported to be kata from Seisho Arakaki that perhaps Funakoshi got from Azato. The JKA acknowledges the source of these kata, for them, as Kenwa Mabuni. In Shito ryu, these kata are sometimes classified as Arakaki-ha or Higaonna-ke (Arakaki was Kanryu Higaonna's first teacher).

Isnt Sesain presumably Nahate? I should have been more specific with the question, what I meant was is it possible there was a tradition known as 'Shorei' that predates Goju, Ryuei, etc. It doesnt seem unlikely, but at any rate, so it's pretty much acknowledged that it was an error on Funakoshis part?


As for Mr. Trias teaching Okinawan kata, I find that a stretch. (No disrespect intended towards Mr. Trias). I'm fairly familiar with Shuri Ryu, and the kata of the style resembles JKA Shotokan kata, as opposed to the Okinawan progenitors. The stances and embusen of the Shuri Ryu Bassai Dai or Kanku Sho or Empi-sho closely resemble their JKA analogs, with the exception of some minor directional shifts. It's also interesting to note the use of Funakoshi's names for these kata: Kanku instead of Kosokun, Empi instead of Wanshu. Mr. Trias claime, in his book, "The Pinnacle of Karate" that one of his teachers is Makoto Gima, so this could explain these kata. Nonetheless, the kata don't appear to be Okinawan, but rather more like their Japanese counterparts.

Rob

Again I should have been more specific, I meant kata originally of Okinawan origin, meaning no disrespect to Shuri Ryu stylists, I do not consider Trias's style to be Okinawan on any real level, and yes part of the reason for that the fact that he's using the Japan-ized names , such as kanku for kusanku etc. I was just wondering where Komatsujin thought the kata arrived in Kosho Shorei Kempo from, because regardless of how changed they are, they are of Okinawan origin.
thanks.

-Zach Zinn

[komatsujin]

Hi Kevin,

It apears that Mitose sought out Eisenhower as well as others, such as the former prime minister of Japan in order that he(Eisenhower) might accept the position of honorary president of the Japanese/American good will and frienship society, an organization started(in-part) by Mitose. This is no small accomplishment for Mitose. Keep in mind that Mitose considered Eisenhower responsible for the death of virtually his whole family. Just prior to America joining WWII everyone fled the Shaka-in temple(it has been a monument ever since then). Those of Mitose's relatives who were at the temple went to Nagasaki to join the rest of the family. Subsequently all of them were killed by the second atomic bomb. For Mitose to not only face the man whom he held responsible for the death of his family, but also to appoint him honorary president of the organization must not have been easy. Mitose talks about this in the begining of his second book. There are numerous pictures of Mitose and Eisenhower together that can still be obtained by calling the Eisenhower library. Mitose's strategy was to get someone with a big name to spearhead the society in order that people in high places both in Japan and the US would take it seriously. It seems to have been working great right up until the time of his unfortunate demise. Most people paint a picture of Mitose doing these things all alone and with some sinister plot he concockted behind the scenes. The fact is that many big business people in the Japan town area were in it with him. It should also be mentioned that the Japan/American Goodwill and Friendship Society turned out exactly how Mitose planed, and (to my knowlege)there is a chapter in all of the fifty states. Some people would only beleive that Mitose was in it for money. To those I would ask, Where is it all? He lived in a low-end apartment, drove a beaten up old truck, and only had a few changes of clothes,which he always made sure were clean(looking neat and respectable was very important to him). He did collect alot of money from local business people and claimed that it was for building a monument for his new organization. It is true that this monument never was built, however it is also true that the time frame between him collecting the money and his arrest would make it virtually impossible to have built it. So what did he do with all the money that he collected? He made numerous donations in Japan as well as in L.A.
The Japanese Christian church, budhist monasteries, the Japanese Chamber of Commerce,the Helen Keller School for the blind,he sponsored a scholarship fund for the University of California etc...He also made numerous donations while living in Hawaii. I won't tell you that he definately didn't screw peole out of their money, but it is important that people hear both sides of the story, not just the side of some upset people who donated money for a monument that never happened. They're pissed!

-Michael Brown

[Kevin Meisner]

Just discovered this thread and wanted to let you guys know that I am acquainted with Mr. Mike Brown who is responding to your questions. In addition to his skill is Kosho, Mr. Brown is proficient in a number of other martial skills and can be regarded as an excellent and honest source of information regarding Kosho. Mike, nice to have you on e-budo!

[koshoT]

Thank you Shihan Brown for that information!

I am looking forward to attending your seminar. I also will be going to college soon in Springfield Mass. and hopefully I will be able to come out to your school twice a month for classes. Thank you again for all the information that you have been providing.

Tom Berkery
Latham, NY

[komatsujin]

Hello all,

Tom, Your welcome at my school any time. No need for that Shihan or Sensei stuff here. Michael, Mike, or Komatsujin will do just fine. There's a time and a place for that. Thanks for the etiquette though.

Kevin Meisner, WOW I havn't spoken to you in quite a while I hope that you and yours are doing well. This thread is sure bringing people out of the woodwork. Fun stuff!...and thanks for all the nice comments as well as the warm welcome to the E-Budo fam.

-Michael Brown

Where but in the collective consciousness of man and in his pursuit of justice does he approach closest to GOD.

- Mitose Masayoshi

[Senjojutsu]

I was wondering how the romanized (romaji) spelling for the Japanese kanji for “fist”. Is it Kempo with an “m” or Kenpo with a “n”? I was informed it was related to a typographical error in one of James Mitose’s books from the early 1950’s, which caused the widespread spelling variation amongst American Kempo schools which carries on even till today. That sounds too much like an “urban legend” to me. Does anyone have any background information to confirm?

[komatsujin]

Hello Senjojutsu,

You really should sign your posts. It's the law.

You asked a couple of hotly debated questions among kempo people, and for that I thank you. I'll deal with them one at a time.

1) As far as the contraversy over whether to spell kempo with an "m" or an "n". It is possible to write it either way and still be correct. It is writen both ways even by the Japanese(when writing it in English). Some people would say that because there is no "kana"for the letter m nor is there an m in Japanese, then the word should be spelled with an n. There is nothing wrong with this line of reasoning. However, the other way to write kempo in Japanese(not to mention the more proper way) is to use the kanji. When the kanji for the word are used it brings about the proper pronunciation which is kempo. A general rule when translating any foriegn word into English is; spell the word in such a way that it's pronuciation is as close to the original language as possible while at the same time maintaining all the standard rules of English gramar. The word in Japanese is pronounced kempo. We have all the nessesary letters and sounds to pronounce it correctly so why spell it in such a way that it is pronounced incorrectly?

2)With respects to Mitose Sensei's first book(What is Self-Defence? Kenpo Jujitsu). This book was published in 1952 under that name, however it was writen some 5-6 years earlier. Copies of these unpublished manuscripts were sent to numerous people in the Hawaiian islands as a gift from Mitose. Many of these people sent letters of thanks to Mitose with some very favorable coments. One particular letter worth noting was from the judo legend YukiOtani. In all of the letters dating from that time period(that is the pre-publishers time period ie...pre-1952) the word kempo is spelled with an "m". I also have a copy of the shodan certificate given to Thomas Young by Mitose and dated July 31st,1946 in which he refurs to the art as "ju jitsu(kempo)". I would also use this certificate to defend the position that Mitose did not teach his family art in Hawaii. The words Kosho Ryu are not found anywhere on the cert. The publisher indeed was responsible for the change in spelling, not to mention that the publisher also refused to publish the book without any photographs. The original book did not contain waza. All this being said Mitose went on with the rest of his life spelling the word kempo with an "n" probably(and I'm speculating) so as not to apear inconsistant with the spelling from his first book. However I don't believe that he would have done so if this was not a valid option.

-Michael Brown

[Senjojutsu]

Thank you Komatsuijin for your "Kempo/Kenpo" reply.

I am starting to do research on the Crest (Mon) of the Kosho Shorei Ryu.

Is it really the James Mitose's (historical) family crest?

If it is more modern (20th century) does it have a "creation date"?

Not to sound like an art critic, but the Kosho Shorei Ryu Mon appears more cluttered when compared to the elegant geometric simplicity of most of the classical Japanese koryu crests.

I mean it seems to be trying to cram in everything, the three hand symbols, the three plant images, eight sides...

Regards,

[komatsujin]

Hello Senjojutsu,

Thanks for the great question. We at the Sei Kosho Shorei Kai are also still doing alot of research on the crest that Mitose used. Many people have commented about the crest used by the Kosho Ryu. Most of the comments are on the negetive side. Most people claiming that it does not resemble a traditional mon. However, there is no doubt that Mitose held this crest in high regard. Most crests, esspecially family crests, didn't have very deep meanings. In fact quite often they would simply depict the a motif that was in some way related to the occupation of the family. There were also crests that were used in temples or by particular sects of budhism and zen. These types of crests quite often had deep doctrinal meanings hidden within them.

We simply don't know for sure (right now) whether the Kosho mon was particular to Mitose's family or to the religious sect know as Kosho Ryu. Or perhaps Mitose himself made it up in order to teach some of the key elements within the ryu.

The fact is that it does contain numerous elements that are classical Japanese and found in many Japanese crests. For example, the octagon is quite common and usually represents the eight fold path of budhism. It can be represented in a few different ways; as an actual octagon, as eight solid or empty circles, or as eight star bursts. The circle around the outside is quite common as well and usually sybolizes totality or completeness. It can also represent the universe, the empty mind, or even a mirror. The three circles on the inside are also quite common among traditional mon. They often represent celestial bodies, but can also represent the body, mind, and spirit. In the case of the Kosho ryu, there are numerous symbolic representations for pretty much each element within the mon.

It is true that regardless of who founded the Kosho mon and when, it absolutely contains the ryugi(irreducible, common denominator teachings) within its sybolism.

Why then dosn't it look traditional Japanese? because Mitose Sensei wanted to make some of the more rudamentary teachings within the mon easy to grasp. So he superimposed the hand signs,used so often within the ryu, right on top of the three inner circles, for which they are represented. In the same way he also added the shochikubai(pine,bamboo,and plumb branches) to the mon. Thus making visible what was originally invisible. It may suprise some to hear that there is a mon at the Shaka-in that is eight starbursts on the outside and three starbursts on the inside. There are also other mon at the temple that have been identified such as; the official crest of the Shingong-shu, the crest of the Tendai-shu, and the Tokugawa mon. The erlier mentioned crest has not yet been identified by anyone. A local historian has speculated that it probably belonged to some obscure religious sect that may have practiced there, as numerous religions were practiced there during its history. I wonder if that sect was Kosho?

-Michael Brown

[Senjojutsu]

It has been written James Mitose had several black belts during his teaching years in Hawaii, the most famous being William Chow.

However how many other shodans were there? Is there a definitive (or should the word be accepted) Kosho Ryu lineage list?

Was Mitose’s philosophy towards the kyu/dan ranking system known, i.e., just a necessary adaptation brought on by the gendai budo dojos?

"Not real, only plastic"

Bryan Seer

[komatsujin]

Hello John,

You asked;
"how many other shodans were there?" With respect to the Mitose lineage in Hawaii.

- Mitose Sensei taught in numerous places in Hawaii from 1939 at the University of Hawaii until probably 1954 at the Official Self-Defence Club. Although he formaly left the O.S.D.C. a couple of years earlier under the supervision of his then sempai Thomas Young, Mitose promoted numerous people to shodan even after retirement. We'll probably never know exactly how many people were promoted to shodan by Mitose. Those that I know of are; Thomas Young, William Chow, Jiro Nakamura, Antone Krooky, Arthur Keawe, Edward Bobby Lowe, Paul Yamaguchi, Woodrow McCandles, and Paul Pung. Though there very well maybe more. Keep in mind that not all of these men were direct students of Mitose. After Mitose retired from active teaching he moved back to the island of Hawaii(the big island),however he would often make visits to teach some of the senior students of both Thomas Young, and William Chow(who soon after opened a school of his own). In a few cases,students who had been tutered by Mitose while belonging to one of these schools eventually had their rank acknowleged by Mitose.

"Was Mitose’s philosophy towards the kyu/dan ranking system known, i.e., just a necessary adaptation brought on by the gendai budo dojos?"

- As far as we know, there were no ranks given in the art of Kosho Ryu in Hawaii. The art that Mitose taught at the Official Self-Defence Club he refured to as "kempo Jiu Jitsu". In kempo jiu jitsu Mitose adopted the kyu/dan ranking system, and was infact using colored belts to symbolize the different kyu ranks. Along side of this Mitose also used the more traditional teaching licenses which he gave to some people. I have a copy of the instructors certificate given to Thomas Young which qualifies him to "act as instructor in this art"(jiu jitsu, kempo).

-As far as his philosophy toward the kyu/dan system, I'd only be guessing, but he must have seen some value in it as he used himself. Although he did express some concern in his last book "What is True Self- Defense?" over how easily people can come across thier belts. He never did impliment this system within his family art though. He continued to use a budhist monastery ranking structure, while substituting English titles for there Japanese equivelents.

Best regards,

-Michael Brown

[Senjojutsu]

Michael,

What then are the main points of difference between the two main branches of Kosho Shorei Ryu Kempo? That is the branch headed by Bruce Juchnik, and the other branch headed by Mitose’s son, James B. Mitose. (typo s/h/b Thomas)

Is it a dispute over lineage, hereditary versus soke?
Or is it over differences over kata sets and their bunkai?

Else is it a more conceptual or philosophical based disagreement, such as that between the Shotokan and Shotokai branches post Gichin Funakoshi’s death?

[komatsujin]

Hello John,

...and thanks for another great question.

" What are the main points of difference between the two main branches of Kosho Shorei Ryu Kempo? That is the branch headed by Bruce Juchnik, and the other branch headed by Mitose’s son, James B. Mitose."

- First let me lay some ground work. Six months before he died Mitose Sensei never intended to even meet his son nevermind pass on the art to him. In fact he gave specific instructions not to search out his son. It was Bruce Juchnik and Arnold Golub who came up with the idea after Mitose Sensei would explain how proud he was of his family linage and the importance of the blood line. There are many people alive today who know this to be true. Bruce Juchnik, Arnold Golub, Rick Alemeny, Eugene Sedeno, Ray Arquilla, Geoge Santana, and many more. Toward the last few months of his life Mitose Sensei agreed to meet with his son. After the first visit he came to have true feelings for his son(who wouldn't). He finally came to accept the idea that Tom would inherit the art. You should understand that in Japan it is quite common for someone to inherit an art who has never even trained in that art. This was commonly done in order to keep an art within a family line. When this is done there is always a senior teacher called a hanshi, sometimes there is even more than one hanshi.

You should know that Bruce Juchnik has never refured to himself as the 22nd inheritor of the art only as the "hanshi"(senior teacher of the art).

Here's where the problem arises. At the time it was understood(to everyone especially Mitose Sensei) that Tom Mitose Sensei would be studying the art from Bruce Juchnik. Of course it should also be said that Mitose Sensei expected to be getting out of prison soon and then there would be no problem. Mitose Sensei died quite suddenly and unexpectedly from complications due to a stroke. I have his death cert. which says that the family was notified but refused to claim the body. I also am fortunate enough to have seen a hand typed copy of Mitose's 2nd book "what is true self defense". In the originals there is no mention of Tom Mitose nor a picture. Both were added in later by Bruce Juchnik and Arnold Golub. When Mitose Sensei died he truly expected that his son would be studying the family art from Juchnik Hanshi. He actually did for a while. That is why although his art is mostly kajukenbo it does posses some of the characteristics of Kosho esspecially some of the more supperficial stuff like; the bow, the mon, the history, the philosophy, and even some of the octagon jumping. Tom Mitose Sensei being a very talented martial artist in his own right, it didn't take to long before he started to tire of playing second fiddle to Juchnik Hanshi. Tom was still fairly young and physical. He had the name, the blood, and the title. Tom wanted to teach and recieve the glory that comes with being the Honorable Great Grandmaster. Unfortunately what he was teaching was so dramaticaly different from what Hanshi was teaching that it was only a matter of time before they would split up. Indeed, splitting up was the propper thing to do(at the time) in order to maintain the integrity of the art.

I should note here that everyone who was around Mitose at that time other than Arnold Golub and Ray Arquilla has affiliated themselves with Juchnik Hanshi. That includes Thomas Young,Paul Yamaguchi,Anton Krooky,the family of Henry Seishiro Okazaki,Sig Kuffrath,the Official Self Defense Club People in Hawaii, and list goes on and on.

Arnold Golub went in the direction he thought was right. Considering his appointed position was not basd on the physical arts we can not expect him to make a decission on that basis. Ray Arquilla was originally with Hanshi but left for reasons unknown to me. He is now part of the Tracey karate group. It has been hinted that his non-physical appointed position in the art was not physicaly gratifying enough for him to stick around. Thomas Mitose is an excellent martial artist who has practiced Kajukenbo all of his life(originally with Joe Halbuna), he has also studied some stick arts and some of his family art(Kosho Shorei Ryu), both under Bruce Juchnik Hanshi. I truly think that Bruce Juchnik Hanshi feels hurt about the whole situation. He's also quite frustrated and probably a little mad. Although I've never heard him wish anything bad on Thomas certainly he thinks that Thomas should do the right thing and that would require that he stop proffessing that he knows the family art and actually learn it. As time goes on Thomas seems to remember more and more about studying with his father as a teen. It's truly getting rediculess. Hanshi is hurt because it was his idea to reintroduce the two of them. Now he feels betrayed by Thomas and that Thomas is nothing but an opportunist who was pissed at his father for giving him up as a child and so seized an opportunity(immediately after his father died) to capitolize on his fathers name. He didn't claim his fathers body but immediately changed his name to Mitose and got the rites to Mitose's books etc...
All this being said Hanshi still does not call himself the 22nd soke' of Kosho Ryu, and still holds out hope that a Mitose will once again be part of the art.

A bit long winded I'm sure, but all nessesary.

On a side note;
1) Mitose Sensei's son is Thomas not James.
2) Soke' is the hereditary lineage(family). You may have been looking for "Shihanke".

-Michael Brown

[Senjojutsu]

Thank you Mr. Brown for your last two detailed post on Kosho Shorei Kempo lineage, one follow-up question (for now) based on your following statements:

"We'll probably never know exactly how many people were promoted to shodan by Mitose. Those that I know of are; Thomas Young, William Chow, Jiro Nakamura, Antone Krooky, Arthur Keawe, Edward Bobby Lowe, Paul Yamaguchi, Woodrow McCandles, and Paul Pung. "

"I should note here that everyone who was around Mitose at that time other than Arnold Golub and Ray Arquilla has affiliated themselves with Juchnik Hanshi. "

Therefore who is Arnold Golub?

More specifically how much Kosho Ryu Kempo training did he receive directly from Master James Mitose, since he is not in your shodan list??

Maybe I am a traditionalist, but to get to a "Honorable Head Master" title (in one of the Kosho Kempo branches org charts) a person should have extensive knowledge/instruction within the art.

Thanks in advance

[komatsujin]

Senjojutsu,

Thanks for another good question.

You asked;

"Therefore who is Arnold Golub? "

- Arnold Golub is a former kempo student of Bruce Juchnik. Actually I believe that he first studied with one of Bruce Juchnik's black belts and then went on to study under Juchnik Sensei. He eventually achieved a blue belt. He was introduced to James Mitose Sensei by Bruce Juchnik.

You also asked;

"More specifically how much Kosho Ryu Kempo training did he receive directly from Master James Mitose"

- None. Mr. Golub was very usefull to Mitose and obviously Mitose Sensei thought alot of him. By usefull I mean that Mr. Golub was an acomplished author, a psychologist, and fairly well schooled in Eastern philosophy. Mitose held these qualities in very high regard. As far as I know, Mr. Golub does not even claim to have knowlege of the phisical arts.

and then you asked;

"Maybe I am a traditionalist, but to get to a "Honorable Head Master" title a person should have extensive knowledge/instruction within the art. "

- Before Arnold Golub, there were NINE other people who held the title of Honorable Head Master under Mitose Sensei. The one just before him was Mr. Frank Montenegro.

One of the things that many people, even in Kosho Ryu, don't realize is that within the art there are two different lineages as well as two different rank structures.

Kosho Ryu was a religious sect that contained a martial tradition.

Kosho Ryu Kempo was the bujutsu aspect of the ryu that not only used a separate ranking structure, but also started the wearing of gi. Both of which were adopted by James Mitose while living in Hawaii. Up until that point practitioners of the ryu were monks and priests and would have worn the traditional garb of the budhist priesthood. The positions given out to certain people(Arnold Golub, and Thomas Mitose to name a couple), were not of the bujutsu ranking stucture. A simple look at page#224 in Mitose's Book "What is True Self-Defense" not only lists these non-martial titles, but also defines thier job descriptions.

Honorable Head Master was primarily a clearical title. Mr. Golubs' job was to write letters, help to publish Mitose's books, organize a corespondence course for Mitose, etc...This by no means should be-little Mr. Golubs position, just to put it into it's propper light. Make no mistake about it, this was a particularly high ranking position within the ryu, but it was not a position that required knowlege of the physical arts.

Hope this helped.

-Michael Brown

This reply made my day:" Strange stuff
BTW this has nothing to do with Okinawan Arts get the hell out of here........"--- Hahahahahaha!!!! LMAO! Too true brother, TOO TRUE!

http://www.data-techniques.net/cwm/cwm/3dlil/laff.gif

[Senjojutsu]

Mr. Kass
Thank you for the concise lineage, well done.

Despite your disclaimer, hopefully you will not be flamed by someone who will always feel left out in these types of listings; say some of legions from amongst Grandmasters Nick Cerio, Victor “Sonny” Gascon, Ralph Castro, or George Pesare to name a few.

It does show so many of the today’s active American MA roots that can be traced directly to martial artists who practiced in Hawaii during the 1940s and 50s.

As far as your ending comment, well… I did not create this thread, nor the other neighborhood Kosho thread.

Also there is the common and well-known historical lineage from Chinese Chaun Fa systems for both Kempo and Okinawan “Te” styles.

Also in my dealings I always thought of Akido followers having the tendency to be the most snobbish within the Japanese Martial Artist community, not the Okinawan colonists.

As a E-Budo newbie, I do notice these Kosho threads are the most active within this Ryukyuan Unarmed Martial Arts forum, only the Matsubayashi-ryu thread can boast any significant posting activity compared to these two Kosho threads. In fact, it looks like the Okinawan purists are in danger of being assimilated within this Forum group.

Resistance is futile.
The “Kempo” Borg