Judo Kata

[BrianV]

Hi all,
I was wondering, how many of you have trained in all 7 of the Judo Kata?
Do all Kodokan Students have to learn as requirement for Dan grading, or are only a few used to teach principle?
I have studied the Kime-no-kata, Nage-no-kata, and Katame-no-Kata as part of my Jujutsu training. My instructor thought it was a excellent vehicle for me to grasp principles such as "explosive agression" etc,,.
Now I teach them to my students and am wondering about the other four.
I realize there are at least two more, but they are supposedly not "mainstream".
Local Judo instructors seem to vary between saying that without the Kata, no understanding can be attained, to the idea that they are only good for higher belts(Nidan, etc), to hone skills previously learned.

Looking forward to your input,

[ss29515]

I've been studying Nage No Kata at my dojo for a while. I keep hurting myself doing Shiai, so I'm mostly doing kata. Or at least I will be when I get back to the dojo (got some medical issues to resolve first). I've found that doing Nage no kata has helped me in timing during randori. Where I practice, Nage no kata is required for Shodan. Anyway, I've found doing kata to be more strenuous then it looks and a lot of fun. I haven't seen Kime no kata performed; I've only seen it in the Kodokan book. It looks awesome and I'd like to learn it one day.

take care

[MarkF]

Hi Guys,
IF you are involved in a dojo which stresses kata, then I would say you are either lucky or bored. When I came up, Kata was only stressed in those who wanted to learn them. I decided I wanted to grade at shodan with kata, but I found I only had to chose which kata and then it did not have to be complete.

There are actually eight kata, two which are nearly unknown today: Itsutsu no kata (the five forms) and go no kata (hard forms) are rarely seen today. I am hoping to get a tape in which go no kata is seen for the first time in fifty years (at the time they were performed). Itsutsu no kata is probablly not complete and I haven't really the foggiest. If youcan master nage, katame, and especially kime no kata, you are very complete judo players. I genereally teach kata at the higher levels, but as of now, I have graduated only one dan grade student, but pieces of kata are always there. Goshin jutsu is taught only as kata, as is kime. And know, I have n't reallly studied all forms, but I do teach some kata from as this is really the only way to teach the mechanics and thus, it is the only way one can truly understand the economical use of force or mininal effort,

A few of us will be receiving the tape of go no kata so that should bring uo some very good conversation on what was generally, if not dead, then dying kata. I am looking for forward to it. Kyushu is also something I learned early on, and I think this is really good not only for knowing which nerves are available for disabling an opponent, but it does also help with breaking kuzushi.

[BrianV]

Hi Mark,
I am also waiting for that tape with bated breath. I was reading the other night about a ninth kata, but I am at work and thus, after one too many atemi to the head, am unable to remember the name or specialty of it.
However, be assured I will look it up!! :) (and report back for some more intelligent conversation with you).
Have a great day.

[efb8th]

Hi, Guys!

Interesting thread. Another very useful but "nonstandard" pair of kata are Kawaishi's "Go no Sen no Kata" and Kyuzo Mifune's "Nage Ura no Kata." I have the 1957 translation of Kawaishi's book, which has the Go no Sen written up and illustrated with line drawings. It was translated by E.J. Harrison. Kawaishi attributes the origin of the kata to Waseda University, and says,"It has been created for about 40 years by the masters of the University" which puts its origin at around 1937. It contains 12 kata, all Nage vs. Nage. I have the Nage Ura no Kata on the old movie of Mifune from the thirties (on tape). I think that the Mifune Kata number 15 counter throws, but it's been a long time since I viewed it (there goes the weekend).

So, to recap, we have: 1) Nage 2)Katame 3) Go no Sen 4) Kime 5) Goshin Jutsu 6) Ju no kata 7) Go no kata 8) Itsutsu 9) Koshiki 10) Nage Ura no Kata 11) and Seiryoku zen'yo Kokumin Taiiku.

Sounds like eleven to me!

[MarkF]

Actually, we do utilize it, and have almost since the beginning. Kawaishi may have standardized it, but go no sen has always been included in gokyo no waza. Utsuri goshi comes to mind. In fact, there are a very large number of technique which may come under this heading. I think it was because Go no kata which could not be found in Kodokan judo that it came up in the first place. In actuality, there is, not only go no sen, but sen no sen and sen sen no sen. Most (with the exception of go no sen no waza) are in the syllabus, but few do any training in it. Nage ura no kata is also included, but here too, it is generally not taught. In fact, Kodokan judo is very "limp" when it comes to the entire syllabus and this is why judo is still a growing art, not the dead art which so many have implied. Certainly, though, some kata and other techniques, are glossed over, and some have been neglected completely. Since 1958, there are some 17 nage which have been added, and probably there are so many variations on others that the number is only "official," but not defined. Certainly the ura no kata in one of them. If we did put together all waza, and all kata which have been seen over the years, we would have one hell of a time, as most of us would be jukyu again:)

[efb8th]

Good morning Mark!

Well, I watched the K. Mifune tape again (from the Fifties, not Thirties, sorry.) and it explains Itsutsu as explaining symbolically the "Five fundamental forces of the universe." Very interesting.

I also noticed something else I had missed before: Mifune throwing "YAMA ARASHI!" Definitely Te Waza, and slightly flavored with Sumi Otoshi: a thing of beauty!

Regards,

[BrianV]

Hi Ed,
I was also looking at Kawaishi's book and noticed a reference to the "Shobu-no-kata".(Kata of attack or contest).
He makes reference to there being numerous more obscure kata.
Anyone have a link to the Kodokan have any insight?

Brian.

[MarkF]

One could probably come up with a dozen or so more kata then those mentioned here, but like all things in budo, they either survived and are current, survived and not so current (go no kata and itsutsu no kata), and incomplete or just plain dead. That shouldn't come as a surprise, and as the gokyo no waza, there are plenty of newer applications. Between 1882 and 1895, there were major revisions, and then in 1920(?) there were still more. Seventeen new throws have been added to go kyo no waza, and I suspect, depending on direction, there will be others. Anyone want to add his/her new kata?;)