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Burt
2nd September 2001, 22:16
Hi

Just a quick question. Whats the difference between the two?

Hope you can help.Thanks.

pboylan
3rd September 2001, 16:07
"Jujutsu" is a general term for all unarmed (and some light arms) grappling, in Japan. As a category it includes; judo, aikido, aikijujutsu and plenty of other things. As for all the aiki- terms, their meaning isn't really set in stone. There doesn't seem to be a common usage of the terms in Japan, so no base meaning has developed.

Peter Boylan
Mugendo Budogu LLC
Fine Martial Arts Books, Videos and Equipment from Japan
http://www.budogu.com

bdenison
31st January 2002, 21:42
Burt,

The following is my attempt to answer your question.

Most martial artists recognize or have a general understanding of what Jujutsu is—Jujutsu, to over simplify, is a system that utilizes the attackers force against him, such as pushing when pulled or pulling when pushed. The system utilizes throws, joint locks, projections, immobilizations, pressure points, and atemi to accomplish this end. Now it's possible to also describe Aiki-Jujutsu the same way. So what separates Aiki-Jujutsu from Jujutsu systems? What makes Aiki-Jujutsu unique?

Philosophically and physiologically, Aiki-Jujutsu differs from other Jujutsu systems. Philosophically Aiki-Jujutsu approaches training slightly different, in that the techniques and principles applied utilize 'Aiki' in their application. Aiki means divine harmony. When you execute techniques you use only the amount of force necessary, and no more. The confidence that develops as you train begins to radiate. This "presence" intimidates attackers. This "presence" was what Sokaku Takeda, founder of Daito Ryu Aiki-Jujutsu, was referring to when he said, "Aiki is the ability to defeat an attacker with a single glance." An example would be the child that stopped misbehaving when its mother just looked at him.

Physiologically Aiki-Jujutsu approaches training in much the same way as Jujutsu systems; the differences are subtle, but these differences have a devastating effect on the attacker. Aiki-Jujutsu tries to throw the attacker, by forcing the attacker to off balance them selves. This kuzushi, or off balancing, applies at the initial contact, as opposed to physically pushing or pulling the attacker to off balance them. The least amount of force used the better. Also Aiki-Jujutsu utilizes the attackers mind against him to make techniques more effective. Aiki-Jujutsu utilizes involuntary responses, uses tricks that affect your vision, and, utilizes the physiological make up of the human body all to accent the Aiki-Jujutsu techniques. Morihei Ueshiba, founder of Aikido, best described Aiki when talking about the Daito-ryu: "Its techniques are many and the theory is deep." Basically Aiki-Jujutsu is a form of Jujutsu that utilizes 'Aiki' to enhance its effectiveness.

Brently Keen
2nd February 2002, 07:18
Rather than resurrect this old thread, and reignite the old aiki wars yet once again - people interested in knowing more about the differences between jujutsu and aikijujutsu might start by reading the archives in the aikijujutsu forum.

But if you really want to know - you'd be much better off seeking out an authentic school and/or a qualified representative of Daito-ryu. Because you're just not going to get a very clear picture from anywhere/anyone else.

Brently Keen

bdenison
2nd February 2002, 16:14
Brently,

I completely agree that the best way to gain a true understanding of Aiki (and Aiki-jujutsu) is to work with a qualified instructor. I also beleive that Daito-ryu is the best choice when seeking out this instructor. I do not feel that Daito-ryu is the only system that utilizes aiki, but Daito-ryu is the most recognized and well-known system that does.

Nathan Scott
13th February 2002, 00:33
Mr. Denison,


Aiki means divine harmony.

With all due respect, this is not a literal translation (though some arts may choose to view it this way).

"Aiki" more accurately defines (based on the kanji reading) as "harmonizing/blending energy".

Also, I would not agree that the differences between jujutsu and aikijujutsu are subtle. There are of course common principles, and in many cases the basic "shape" of the technique is similar, but the approach to technique execution is typically quite different.

Of course it is difficult to speak broadly about "jujutsu", since the approaches within this art are so varied. Many use varying amounts of aiki in their art and just don't use the term "aiki".

The best thing to do, as Mr. Keen wrote, is to read the various posts in both the Jujutsu forum here as well as those in the AJJ forum to gain a better understanding of the differences.

Regards,

Brently Keen
13th February 2002, 00:57
While reading previous threads is not a bad idea, and I did recommend it (the pre-crash threads might actually have been more enlightening), the BEST way is not reading at all, but rather seeking out some competent instruction from a qualified instructor/dojo and learning first-hand for yourself, what those differences are.

I know that Nathan knows this, but I didn't feel my position was made very clear in his last post in which he referenced something I'd said earlier.

"Aiki" can be interpreted literally a number of ways, and I agree with Nathan that "divine harmony" is not a strict literal translation, nor is it a very good interpretation of what we (especially in Daito-ryu) are talking about when we say aiki or aikijujutsu.

In addition to harmony, "ai" can also be translated as being in unison, or coordinated, and even fitting or coming together. "Ki" likewise can be interpreted a number of ways and how these are interpreted/translated can and does make a big difference in how the term(s) will be understood.

Brently Keen

Robert Cheshire
18th February 2002, 06:12
Jui jitsu and aikijujutsu can be the same with slight variations.

We all would agree that aiki is blending/harmony. So, a aiki throw would blend and turn with the throw.

The same throw in a jui jitsu version would be a "straight-line" entry without turning.

The kuzushi is still with both throws however.

Just a "quick" condensed version of my views.

MarkF
18th February 2002, 10:04
The "divine harmony" and other similar transliterations are generally said of Uyehshiba Morihei's view/understanding of aiki while others view it as a stricty physiological application of certain technique.

Most (still extant) ryuha of jujutsu didn't include a lot of throwing technique since only the strong and powerful could so them, mainly because of the wide stance and the lack of using kuzushi and tsukuri, and the "horror" of taking a foot of the ground to finish (kake) the throw. DR AJJ is an exception to this, with a few others and includes judo, in particular.

I am taking this "turning" to be in the direction uke is facing to use his power to finish it for you, with tori simply guiding uke to his advantage.

This is strictly an interpretation, and is never, ever to be an explanation of any differences.

Mark