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Rennis
11th July 2000, 14:01
Here is another annoying technical question. Has anyone else had issues with being tall and doing Jo? Being 6'3", my wingspan is alot longer than that of the average Jo practitioner and it sometimes seems to interfere with doing some movements with proper form (namely the jo is just a hair too short). The basic strikes like honte uchi, gyakute uchi seem to be the biggest issue for me. Namely I am told to keep my motions big and straight and yet when I first tried to copy sensei's body positioning etc, I found the jo was just too short. and need to collapse them a bit to keep for going off the end.

For example, when I first was being taught honte uchi, I was taught not to move the forward hand (after sliding the end of the jo behind you) up or down too much when striking. However if I do that, I need to bend my rear arm too much and do the strike somewhat collapsed and incorrectly. At the last Kaminoda sensei gasshuku I attended I was looking out for ways to fix this issue and I noticed alot of the practitioners there actually did raise their forward hand up to roughly chin level before striking downward and upon trying this, I discovered that it solved the elbow bending of the rear arm issue. However, while that works for me and sensei hasn't corrected me, I'm not all to sure that it is actually the correct way to do the strike. Another example would be in Tsukizue. I was taught that when you shift back evading the cut, you should grab the jo with you left hand at the same time. Being tall, I've found the jo is at steeper angle than everyone else and I have to lean forward more (thus messing up my posture)just to reach it with my left hand. Anyone have any thoughts on these issues, specifically or in general?

Thanks,
Rennis Buchner

Tony Peters
11th July 2000, 20:13
Originally posted by Rennis
Here is another annoying technical question. Has anyone else had issues with being tall and doing Jo? Being 6'3", my wingspan is alot longer than that of the average Jo practitioner and it sometimes seems to interfere with doing some movements with proper form (namely the jo is just a hair too short). The basic strikes like honte uchi, gyakute uchi seem to be the biggest issue for me. Namely I am told to keep my motions big and straight and yet when I first tried to copy sensei's body positioning etc, I found the jo was just too short. and need to collapse them a bit to keep for going off the end.

For example, when I first was being taught honte uchi, I was taught not to move the forward hand (after sliding the end of the jo behind you) up or down too much when striking. However if I do that, I need to bend my rear arm too much and do the strike somewhat collapsed and incorrectly. At the last Kaminoda sensei gasshuku I attended I was looking out for ways to fix this issue and I noticed alot of the practitioners there actually did raise their forward hand up to roughly chin level before striking downward and upon trying this, I discovered that it solved the elbow bending of the rear arm issue. However, while that works for me and sensei hasn't corrected me, I'm not all to sure that it is actually the correct way to do the strike. Another example would be in Tsukizue. I was taught that when you shift back evading the cut, you should grab the jo with you left hand at the same time. Being tall, I've found the jo is at steeper angle than everyone else and I have to lean forward more (thus messing up my posture)just to reach it with my left hand. Anyone have any thoughts on these issues, specifically or in general?

Thanks,
Rennis Buchner

For me (I'm 6'1" with an 80" wingspan) I have found the swimming motion to work best for my strikes, this was encouraged for me by both my sensei and sempai however we are of Nishioka sensei's line not Kaminoda sensei's if that makes a difference. I have just learned Tsukizue but I find I need to drop my center a bit to avoid that same steepness of the jo that you described, my sempai who is taller than me does the same thing as far as I can see.

will szlemko
12th July 2000, 05:25
Hi Rennis,

I also have that problem t 6'2". I also slightly raise my front hand, not as much as what you are seeing. After about a year of working with a standard SMR jo my instructor gave my a slightly longer jo (4" longer) this helped immensley. While this is not a standard issue weapon I have been told that it is more important to do the technique with proper mechanics than it is to have a standard length jo (even if the length was set for semi mystical reasons). Along these same lines my bokken is about an inch longer and somewhat heavier than what my classmates use.

will

Lil Dave
15th July 2000, 01:09
If I am correct Muso Gonnnosuke was a tall man, approximately 6' if I remember correctly. With his size, shouldn't the movements work for you guys too? Is it that shorter men that inherited this art were short, thus changing the techniques? I'm curious as to how come you boys would be having trouble.

Lil Dave
15th July 2000, 01:11
I SOOO should have read that before I posted it. Rarely will you encounter a statement which is as redundant and nonsense as that. Sorry, but I think you understand what I was trying to say.

Dave Buck

David Pitard
18th July 2000, 01:12
Ah...a post which I can definitely relate to

I am 6'2" and have the same issues that the rest of you mentioned. Long arms, slipping off the jo, that angle in Tsuki Zue, etc. I have tried many of the same things that Will, Tony, and Rennis have mentioned. There is no doubt that altering your techinque slightly to compensate for your height is tempting, and somtimes unavoidable.

My conclusion has been, however, that you should try to do that as little as possible. The correct way to do the technique is the way your teacher showed you the basics -- simple and unchanged. Even if you can't do it (keep the front hand still in honte uchi, for example), if you don't keep trying you'll certainly never be able to. My experience in SMR has been that sometimes things which appear to be just "not possible" (due to length of arms, timing, whatever) end up being "possible" if you work at it long enough. We are all working towards an ideal technique, and I think we should be extremely careful changing what that ideal is just because we have trouble doing it today.

Just stick with it! (pardon the pun)

David Pitard

Tony Peters
18th July 2000, 01:58
Originally posted by David Pitard
Ah...a post which I can definitely relate to

I am 6'2" and have the same issues that the rest of you mentioned. Long arms, slipping off the jo, that angle in Tsuki Zue, etc. I have tried many of the same things that Will, Tony, and Rennis have mentioned. There is no doubt that altering your techinque slightly to compensate for your height is tempting, and somtimes unavoidable.

My conclusion has been, however, that you should try to do that as little as possible. The correct way to do the technique is the way your teacher showed you the basics -- simple and unchanged. Even if you can't do it (keep the front hand still in honte uchi, for example), if you don't keep trying you'll certainly never be able to. My experience in SMR has been that sometimes things which appear to be just "not possible" (due to length of arms, timing, whatever) end up being "possible" if you work at it long enough. We are all working towards an ideal technique, and I think we should be extremely careful changing what that ideal is just because we have trouble doing it today.

Just stick with it! (pardon the pun)

David Pitard


No Joke, I actually "GET" Hikiotoshi about 3 out of 5 times and makiotoshi about 1 in 10 maybe, however that is a damn sight better than I used to be. Time is all it takes. I have found that SMR takes a lot more work to get the form of the techniques correct than the Aikiweapons that I've done. Then again this might have to do with the weapon to weapon contact than SMR has. My sensei has a phrase that he uses after every time that we make a little breakthrough "Now do it that way 1 (or 10) thousand more times" delivered with an impish grin.

Chuck Clark
18th July 2000, 02:32
Hi David,

Welcome to E-Budo. Lots of us from the Jiyushinkan are headed to JOhio this weekend. Hope to see you and Tamara there. If not, greetings from all of us in Arizona.

Regards,

Yojimbo558
30th July 2000, 01:27
Hi Rennis,

Those annoying technical questions...just kidding. Seriously though, just for a second let's take time out and remember that during the Fuedal Period of Japan, the Japanese simply were not a big people, the barbarians of Hokkaido yes, but not the Japanese as a whole.

One of the big advantages of Musashi was his height! Back then most Japanse were 5'1/2" or less, while Musashi was 6'. Add that and his tendancy to fight holding the sword one handed, and you have a swordsman who's reach exceeds that of the average swordsman.

Like Musashi you most definitely exceed the height of someone for whom the Jo was originally designed for. Ideally the while the minimum length of a Jo is 4' or 48". It can be longer. Alot of foreign students often forget to look at the differnce in height. For example a Hanbo 3' staff could be used as a can by myself ( I'm 5'11", but not by you, your to tall, you'd have to stoop over ) while a hanbo would be more like a tanbo ( 1' 1/2" - 2' ) to somebody huge like Michael Jordan!

Ideally a Jo should be one of 2 lengths, either reaching your armpit ( which at 6'3" your 4' most certainly does not ) or to the same height as your shoulder! Back into the days of Feudal Japan the Jo reached either of these heights. You alas do not meet these specifications. The answer is to taking into account proper proportions and simply lengthening your stick. This is the only way you will be able to keep your proper hand distance, and maintain a proper form.

A friend of mine is just plain huge, his hands are literally twice the size of man, if you put a regular length bokken in his hands it comes off looking like an over long short sword...but if you give him a longer one ( tachi ) length, then the hilt is big enough for him to use and wield it properly.

Hope this helps,

Eric Bookin