Kanji Request

[Pirahna]

If anyone could assist me with the correct kanji for the following name and phrase I would be most appreciative:

Paul Smith

Red Dragon System


Many thanks,


Paul Smith

[Jeff Hamacher]

Paul,

the same comment cropped up in a different thread, but rendering non-asian names in kanji is a tricky business. do you want to research the meaning of your names and find kanji to fit those meanings, or do you want to try to find kanji that have phonemes (in japanese, chinese or korean) to match the pronunciation of your name?

second, what do you mean by the word "system"? are you talking about a "school" of martial arts? there are several words in japanese (and i assume chinese as well) that match the english "system"; we need to find the correct nuance. i'm afraid i don't have the technical knowledge to produce the ideographs as image files and i assume your computer can't read JIS character set kanji. if someone else has the right stuff, could you lend a virtual hand?

"red" and "dragon" should be easy enough to put together. post back and do what i can.

[Pirahna]

Jeff,


Thank you very much for your assistance. With regards to my name i believe that the Japanese "equivalent" (as advised by my old high school teacher) translates to "Pooru Sumisu" (i think this spelling is correct). I hope this may help. With regards to the red dragon system, i will make a few enquiries and try to be more accurate in my request and come back to you, hopefully later today.
Again many thanks,


Regards

Paul Smith

[Pirahna]

Jeff,


Please disregard the request for "Red Dragon System", i was mistaken that my friend wanted the Japanese translation however it was actually the Chinese and he has managed to obtain it. Sorry about that. I am still interested in the kanji for my name however. I note that the "meaning" of a name is important in ascertaining the correct kanji. "Paul" as i understand it means "small man" according to my names dictionary. As to Smith, i have no idea! Obviously derived from Smithing (blacksmith, goldsmith, etc) sometime in the past but as to a distinct meaning ....? Perhaps "tradesman" may apply? It was stated to me a long time ago that Pooru Sumisu was the literal translation?

Any help you can provide is much appreciated.



Regards


Paul Smith

[ghp]

Paul,

Applying Chinese ideographs to a particular sound is called "ate-ji" [ah-tay Jee] in Japanese: "hitting words" [e.g., the kanji "hits" the sound].

Rendering a Western name into Japanese is "muzukashii" -- difficult (which is the equivalent to meaning "impossible" in the lingo). As Don suggested, instead of kanji -- use katakana. Japanese really get confused when they see a "made up" name -- since it is so unnatural, they don't know what to make of it.

In Don's personal example of KaNinGaMu [Cunningham] -- it sounds fine if you know how to properly read the kanji; it would make sense. However, the same kanji can also be read "Hi Shinobu Wa Nai" and still mean "Fire Patient Self-Nothingness." [the last two kanji, if reversed, would be "muga" and means "non-ego" ... interesting stuff, this.]

It just confuses the crud out of the Japanese.

My advice: stick to katakana; it is more logical and natural. Afterall, everyone in Japan who has studied English is very familiar with the name "Sumisu san" :p

[Oops ... I just realized the Don Cunningham reference was on another thread --- but you probably read it :)]

Regards,
Guy

[Jeff Hamacher]

Originally posted by ghp
Applying Chinese ideographs to a particular sound is called "ate-ji" [ah-tay Jee] in Japanese: "hitting words" [e.g., the kanji "hits" the sound].
hmm, i like that image! i would translate it as "applied letters/characters", i.e. fitting the ideographs to existing phonemes or vocabulary.

It just confuses the crud out of the Japanese.

My advice: stick to katakana; it is more logical and natural. Afterall, everyone in Japan who has studied English is very familiar with the name "Sumisu san" :p
that's an excellent point, Guy. if you want to communicate in practical terms with japanese, go for katakana, Paul. if, on the other hand, you just want to have a clever little "asian" version of your name, kanji are definitely more interesting. here's one rendering of the family name Smith or "Sumisu" in japanese:

"sumi" can be a character meaning "to make clear, clarify"
"su" can be the character meaning "happiness" or "to congratulate" (the japanese reading of the character is "kotobuki")

the only thing i have of my name written in kanji is my hanko; all official documents or records have my name in katakana.

[Pirahna]

Thanks Jeff and Guy.

Unfortunately katakana is not an option as the translation is for a belt emroidery and must be done in kanji.

I take it that Sumisu is able to be translated into kanji and the difficulty lies with my first name? I was under the impression that Pooru was the Japanese approximation of Paul - have i been misled?

Thanks also for the meanings - now i am a "small man clearly happy" perhaps! :laugh: Your assistance is greatly appreciated.


Regards


Paul Smith

[Don Cunningham]

I just posted the hiragana and katakana chart on the other thread.

Just an added note, I thought about using the kanji which had the same meaning as my name. Cunningham is derived from Gaelic, "cunning" meaning "rabbit" and "hame" meaning "home." Yet when I tried the kanji for "rabbit's home," most Japanese didn't understand it as a person's name. While my KaNiGaMu version used four kanji (most Japanese names use one or two kanji), it was more quickly understood by Japanese as my name, maybe because it doesn't make any other sense in its translation.

Just a side note for those into Japanese puns, Red Dragon System might be partially translated as "Red Ryu Ryu." Okay, I know that puns suck, but it made me chuckle. For those unfamiliar with Japanese, two different kanji, Dragon and School, are pronounced the same, i.e., "ryu." [Sorry Paul, I mean no disrespect to your style.]

[hikari]

Well, "Helen" means "bright" or "torch" in Greek, and that's why my nickname is "hikari": the kanji for "bright" that depicts a man carrying a torch. I'm rather happy with that. :)

[Don Cunningham]

My nickname was "tanuki-san," I think because of those little statues of the racoon-like dogs. These are almost always depicted with a big grin and holding a sake bottle. As I got older, I think it was because of a marked similarities in their rotund stomachs and my own beer-enhanced belly, although I preferred to think it was because of the size of our respective genitalia.

http://www.concentric.net/~Budokai/gallery/images2/kumo1.jpg

Here I am standing next to a statue of father and son Tanuki in Kumomoto. Tanuki are wild racoon dogs native to areas like Kyushu. They are also legendary in the Japanese folklore. Notice the resemblance?

[Jeff Hamacher]

Originally posted by Pirahna
I take it that Sumisu is able to be translated into kanji and the difficulty lies with my first name? I was under the impression that Pooru was the Japanese approximation of Paul - have i been misled?
bear in mind that we're not actually "translating" your name, i.e. matching your name to a japanese meaning, but rather "transliterating", i.e. using the borrowed-from-china japanese writing system to represent the english phonemes found in your name. it would be the same if we used kanji or kana to do the job.

the readings and characters i mentioned above represent quite well the transliterated or "japanified" sounds of your family name. your transliteration of your given name is spot-on, but i don't of any ideographs to match the sound "Po-"; whenever this sound occurs in japanese, it's the result of euphonic changes in words, where "hou" becomes "pou" because of the phoneme that precedes it. still, i have a way out...

i don't know what the habit is with various styles of martial arts "uniforms", but i was told recently by my supplies dealer (who is also my senior in jo, not to mention a student of kendo and iai) that only children put both their family and given names on their clothing. adults generally just have their family name embroidered on their gear. you may be dead-set on having both on your belt, Paul, but if you want to let yourself off the hook, you could try this line as a "legitimate" excuse.

NB i gave the reading of one of the characters above as "sumi", but if you're going to look it up, it's better to check for its infinitive reading "sumu". there are a number of homonyms for this sound, so be careful to cross-check against the meaning i gave you. can anyone post these characters so that Paul can read them? ah jus' don' have th' technology, Captain!

PS nice kana chart, Don; thanks for the tip!

[Pirahna]

Thank you Jeff and Don, your post was extremely informative. I apologise for the delay in responding - events just caught up with me as for many other people at this time. Thanks for the advice on sumi - sumu. I will go away and consider this overnight and hope to converse with yourselves further.

Regards

Paul Smith


P.S. Don, have you checked your in box?