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Fredrik_Svensson
12th July 2000, 00:17
Hello, This might be an easy one (and it might not).
How do you translate the kanji, "bu" (as in budo and so on).

Someone suggested that Kobudo is literaly "Old Weapons Art". So therefor "bu" should be weapon?
Is that so?

I always thought "bu" ment martial, and Buki is a weapon (tools for war).

George Kohler
12th July 2000, 01:09
Originally posted by Fredrik_Svensson
Hello, This might be an easy one (and it might not).
How do you translate the kanji, "bu" (as in budo and so on).

Someone suggested that Kobudo is literaly "Old Weapons Art". So therefor "bu" should be weapon?
Is that so?

I always thought "bu" ment martial, and Buki is a weapon (tools for war).

The kanji for bu (as in kobudo and budo) means military or martial

Kobudo actually means "Old Martial Ways."

Hope this helps.

Yamantaka
12th July 2000, 11:54
Originally posted by George Kohler

The kanji for bu (as in kobudo and budo) means military or martial

Kobudo actually means "Old Martial Ways."

Hope this helps. [/B]

QUERY : I heard that the ideogram BU is composed of two parts. The meaning of those parts has been translated as "To stop agression" or "to stop the spear". But Tanahashi Sensei of Aikido has stressed that the correct translation should be "To wield weapons" or "to be proficient in the use of weapons".
Do you know anything about that?
Best regards
Yamantaka

Meik Skoss
12th July 2000, 13:48
The charaacter "bu" is usually glossed as "martial" rather than "military" as the two are quite different. "Military" is normally written with the character "hei" (also "hyo" in a few readings).

"Bu" is normally thought to consist of two sub-characters, one meaning "tomaru" (stop) and the other meaning "hoko" (a kind of spear with a socketed head), but some scholars say that that is a relatively recent explanation of the kanji. I wish I could remember what the supposedly older meaning is, but I don't. A sign of Someteimer's, I guess.

In any event, most of the budo teachers and exponents in Japan would certainly agree *now* that the essence of "bu" is to stop violence. That sometimes means that one must do violence, but it's rather like the case of killing mad dogs (and occasional Englishmen -- but only outside, at noon, on sunnd days).

Budo or bujutsu, kobudo or kobujutsu -- they're pretty much the same thing. Yes, there are a number of very important technical and philosophical differences between "do" and "jutsu" arts, but in common usage, nobody really says much about the latter. We do kobudo, not kobujutsu. One says he is a budoka, not bujutsuka. That's just the way folks speak nowadays. Draeger made a big deal about the differences in his books on Japanese martial arts and ways, but Japanese people don't really make a big distinction between them.

Mark Brecht
12th July 2000, 17:23
That was a very good post by Mr Skoss, i just like to add that the term "Budo" is relativly new. It`s use came up during the edo period, so it is more used for the "do" arts. I also agree that most japanese do not really make a big disctinction between them (:(most japanese also do not do to much Budo or Bujutsu anymore...).

Adam Young
19th July 2000, 13:04
From what I've learned of the character "bu", the whole "stop-fight" interpretation of it is just a modern gloss, intended to emphasise the 'peaceful' goals of martial arts. What is happening here is similar to the "do" interpretation in another thread. It is tempting to give a fundamental meaning to the construction of a character that brings it more into line with a particularly favoured interpreation. However, it ignores the simple fact that when characters were developed, they tended not to have deep philosophically oriented meanings. Such supplemental interpretations developed later. This is not to say that a certain character means X but not Y or Z. But, it is correct to say that when character was created, insofar as certain elements were chosen to represent the concept, only meaning X was intended.

The character "bu" does indeed consist of two elements, 'tomaru' (stop) and 'hoko' (spear). This would prima facie lead to the inference that the character "bu" means martial in the sense of 'stop-fight'.

However, the ideogram for 'tomaru' was originally a picture of a foot representing a person standing still, ie. a person that has stopped moving. If this more fundamental meaning is adopted, then when added to the spear, you get a person standing still with a spear, i.e. a foot soldier.

It may be that this is a much less romantic way of looking at the character, but it is nonetheless (the most likely explanation of) how the character "bu" developed. At least from an academic point of view.

Take care,

Adam Young

kenkyusha
19th July 2000, 18:00
What would Noel Coward say if he knew that he were quoted in such a way?!?!?

Be well,
Jigme

MarkF
21st July 2000, 08:22
Meik Skoss originally posted:


. I wish I could remember what the supposedly older meaning is, but I don't. A sign of Someteimer's, I guess.



This is a condition which afflicts the "light of (h)art" in the usual fashion. Unfortunately, I can tell you it results in "less and less timers" as life goes speeding by.