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Kevin73
10th September 2001, 04:55
My question is, I have been told that Seiuchin kata stresses ibuki breathing and concentrates on that along with it's signature stance. How does this differ from Sanchin kata?

I am interested in hearing responses from persons who have both katas in their system like goju-ryu and isshin-ryu.

Thanks

zach
10th September 2001, 15:58
Originally posted by Kevin73
My question is, I have been told that Seiuchin kata stresses ibuki breathing and concentrates on that along with it's signature stance. How does this differ from Sanchin kata?

I am interested in hearing responses from persons who have both katas in their system like goju-ryu and isshin-ryu.

Thanks

Is Seiunchin what your'e talking about or something else Im not familiar with? Seiunchin is very different, I was only taught the 1st three postures and their corresponding techniques with concentrated breathing, though I've only learned it recently. Seiunchin is a completely different kata, and much more 'complex' for lack of a better word than Sanchin is, I mean as regards amount of techniques, footwork, etc. But I was not taught all that much ibuki breathing stuff w/ Seiunchin except the 1st 3 postures like I said.

-Zach Zinn

Victor
10th September 2001, 18:14
Seiunchin Kata in Isshinryu has a tradition of being done with Ibuku breathing and a tradition of being done without Ibuki.

My instructor taught it with the breathing for the first three sections and the two sections stepping away with simultaneous high-low open hand blocks. In those sections all the movements were done with intense Sanchin style (or Ibuki as you may have it) breathing and slow dynamic tension. The remainder of the form is done with normal breathing and regular speed.

BTW, the use of the term "Ibuki" isn't Okinawan. I suspect myself and others took it from Mas Oyama's texts where he described such breathing. Most likely the best answer would be to describe it as 'Sanchin style breathing'. Not having any 'correct' answer from our instructor's, as they didn't get it from their instructors, we sought out something which seemed like the same thing. Today I see that as incorrect, and my instructors approach of demonstrating and not naming more likely correct.

But is it the original? Perhaps in Isshinryu, perhaps not. Goju's Seiunchin doesn't use such breathing. Several years ago I questioned Sherman Harrill, who trained in Okinawa alongside my instructor, Tom Lewis, about it.

His answer was he felt for demonstration purposes, the instructors showed the heavier breathing, to show a group of Marines when to breathe when performing Seiunchin. But due to lack of english didn't communicate that was for group illustration.

I know of no way to verify what the historical truth was, I've been following my tradion for over 28 years at this point in time, and use of the Sanchin style breathing seems natural. Making the form a blend of dynamic contraction and full speed movement.

Victor Smith
Bushi No Te Isshinryu

Kevin73
10th September 2001, 22:35
That was the type of answer I was looking for Victor. I thought it would be called Sanchin breathing also, but didn't know since it was a differenet kata. I saw the term ibuki breathing on some website talking about isshin-ryu's katas and where they came from.

Thanks alot for your answer