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thomas.rolf
17th September 2001, 15:09
Thomas Rolf... how on earth do you "translate" that to japanese? Ok, the first part could perhaps be "to-ma-su" but the latter?

I'm just curious to find out... katakana would be sufficiant but I would love the kanji.

Domo arigato.

P Goldsbury
17th September 2001, 22:33
Originally posted by thomas.rolf
Thomas Rolf... how on earth do you "translate" that to japanese? Ok, the first part could perhaps be "to-ma-su" but the latter?

I'm just curious to find out... katakana would be sufficiant but I would love the kanji.

Domo arigato.

To-ma-su Ro-ru-fu (or Roh-ru-fu, depending on how long you pronounce the 'o' vowel). Remember. Every consonant except 'n' is followed by a vowel.

Best regards,

Pi-ta- Go-ru-zu-be-ri
_______________
Peter A Goldsbury,
Graduate School of Social Sciences,
Hiroshima University

PS. The question of whether it is possible to write 'ro-ru-fu' in Chinese characters which have a suitably uplifting meaning is an enitrely separate question, but one which my Japanese colleagues, for example, would love to discuss. They tried for many months to find a suitable rendering of Go-ru-zu-be-ri, before reluctantly giving up (the name would be too long; many characters would be unaccceptable, i.e., not on the list approved for surnames by the Japanese government; and the combination would not mean anything). For me, the only possibility would be a Japanese name which has the same meaning, e.g., Kanemura Iwao.

thomas.rolf
19th September 2001, 08:11
Thank you!

And in response to your PS: my firstname means "twin" and my lastname means "dictator" (I didn't pick my lastname!), what would be the japanese to "Twin dictator"? Sounds kinda sick...

Thanks again!

P Goldsbury
19th September 2001, 09:30
I think finding a suitable Japanese equivalent for "dictator" would definitely be a last resort. More likely would be a look at all the various meanings of 'RO', 'RU', and 'FU', in turn, to find a suitably elegant and uplifting combination combination.

Best Regards,

Peter Goldsbury.
_____________
Graduate School of Social Sciences,
Hiroshima University

thomas.rolf
19th September 2001, 09:38
Sounds resonable... I do not think anyone (or anything even!) would be impressed when I presented myself as Twin Dictator!

Ok, just have to find some, as you put it, uplifting meaning to ro, ru and fu.... fu is (among other things?) wind anyway...

Japanese-english dictionary online anywhere?

Thank you for your time, Peter!

kingwoodbudo
24th September 2001, 20:46
Foreign names have no real kanji equivalent, my wife says people do try to write what they think it is in kanji, but it's not correct. Katakana is really your own choice.

Don Cunningham
24th September 2001, 21:16
It is possible to register your name with the prefectural authorities, thus making your name in kanji an official signature. Of course, this is not the same as having or entering a family record as required for all Japanese citizens. If you have a hanko (stamp) made, it must be registered to be recognized as your signature. However, I don't think they care what kanji or katakana is on it.

hyaku
24th September 2001, 23:15
Originally posted by Don Cunningham
It is possible to register your name with the prefectural authorities, thus making your name in kanji an official signature. Of course, this is not the same as having or entering a family record as required for all Japanese citizens. If you have a hanko (stamp) made, it must be registered to be recognized as your signature. However, I don't think they care what kanji or katakana is on it.

Hello Don

Sorry it's not any more.
They change the rules some time ago. Your Jitsuin (Official seal/real mark) has to be in your real name. On the contrary they don't recognise made up ones now. There are official guidlines for Inkan ya (stamp makers) as to the way the English letters are positioned. similar the the edges of the kanji touching the edges of the seal.

Thomas, if you are coming to Japan you must have one of these to conduct any kind of official business.


Regards Hyakutake Colin

thomas.rolf
25th September 2001, 09:12
Originally posted by hyaku


Hello Don

Sorry it's not any more.
They change the rules some time ago. Your Jitsuin (Official seal/real mark) has to be in your real name. On the contrary they don't recognise made up ones now. There are official guidlines for Inkan ya (stamp makers) as to the way the English letters are positioned. similar the the edges of the kanji touching the edges of the seal.

Thomas, if you are coming to Japan you must have one of these to conduct any kind of official business.


Regards Hyakutake Colin

I've actually stopped looking for kanjis that "japanized" my name, I kinda like the katakana version of my name... looks nice!

Wow! I always thought English were written with roman letters, not English... :p

Tomasu Rorufu

kenshin
25th September 2001, 10:25
When did they change it? I made a jitsuin with my name in kanji last September. All that I needed was a piece of mail addressed to me in the name that I wanted on the jitsuin and it had to have the post office stamp on it. It was fairly easy to get.

hyaku
26th September 2001, 01:34
Originally posted by thomas.rolf


I've actually stopped looking for kanjis that "japanized" my name, I kinda like the katakana version of my name... looks nice!

Wow! I always thought English were written with roman letters, not English... :p

Tomasu Rorufu


Mr Rolf

I was just trying to help and I think you missed the point! Using whatever you like to call it, Roman letters or English I believe the quote is please sign posts with your real name. Is Rorufu you "real" name and would you like to change it? A lot of foreigners living in Japan get rather frustrated being refered to by a name they were not born with.

We English use numbers too, but rarely refer to it as Arabic numerals. Perhaps Swedes dont?

Why don't you go ahead with your Kanji Inkan. Lets all have a good laugh.


Kenshin

Did you register your Jitsuin at the city hall? Could be that the rules vary in other Prefectures. Also as a Japanese resident I find there are certain restrictions that are eased. Like signing instead of fingerprinting and being a registered housholder.

Domo Arigato Gozaimasu


Hyakutake Colin

Jeff Hamacher
26th September 2001, 03:23
Originally posted by hyaku
Your Jitsuin (Official seal/real mark) has to be in your real name. On the contrary they don't recognise made up ones now. There are official guidlines for Inkan ya (stamp makers) as to the way the English letters are positioned.

Thomas, if you are coming to Japan you must have one of these to conduct any kind of official business.
now that's interesting: official guidelines for making up an inkan with roman characters. i'd never heard about that before. my hanko (a type of smaller, personal seal) is a kanjification of my family name and it's served me perfectly well for opening and using bank accounts, registering my marriage (to a japanese national), or dealing with most other day-to-day bureaucratic concerns.

of course, this stamp is definitely not a registered jitsuin, and if i chose at some point to buy real estate or if i had to conduct some other kind of high-falutin' legal business, my hanko wouldn't cut it. a jitsuin would be the only way to go, from what i understand.

and as i mentioned on another thread, this business of fitting kanji to your name is really just something fun to do, so any concerns about the "impossibility" of "translating" (more correctly transliterating) one's non-japanese name are hardly warranted. if you decide to communicate on a practical level with japanese or want come to japan, your name transliterated into katakana will be the most sensible solution, however.

hyaku
26th September 2001, 09:52
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jeff Hamacher
[B]
now that's interesting: official guidelines for making up an inkan with roman characters.


Hello Mr Hamacher

The Shiakusho gives out literature to take to the Inkanya. I gather it's a matter of cutting so that certain points of certain letters touch the sides of the seal. With having a lot of letters in a name its a matter of deciding which touch the sides. As you know when they make up the Shachihata rubber stamps the letters fall in the middle.

Although my very good friend make Inkanya it's still damned expensive getting one made. Like a sword its not a thing one makes yearly and they are handed down from generation to generation.

Regards Hyakutake Colin

P Goldsbury
26th September 2001, 10:02
Nearly all my British and American colleagues at Hiroshima University have kanji equivalents of their names, usually devised after much intense discussion by their Japanese colleagues. In my own case, a kanji rendering of 'Go-ru-zu-be-ri' was invented by a Japanese aikido instructor of mine, but after a lengthy discussion (carried on with far more vigour and attention to fine detail than the discussions at faculty and departmental meetings!), my Japanese colleagues here, all 25 of them, unanimously rejected it, on the grounds that the name was too long (5 characters) and contained character not allowed by the Ministry of Education. My colleagues thought that this name might be used officially, but my teacher regarded it simply as a mental exercise.

At some point the university requested me to have three seals made: jitsu-in, ginko-in, and mitome-in. As it turned out, the jitsu-in and ginko-in use my English surname in katakana in a circular-shaped seal. This katakana name is my 'official' name at Hirohima University. When I became a permanent resident of Japan, a sharp--eyed lady at the kuyaku-sho saw that the name on my alien registration card was my real English name, but the name on my meishi (business card) was in Katakana. There was another of those intense, thoughtful, 'bureaucratic' discussions and the name in katakana added to my name in Romaji on the alien registration card. My mitome-in is square in shape and uses the initials PAG, shaped to look like a Chinese character. I normally use this seal for all everyday purposes and carry it around with me.

I think to the Japanese names are a form of kotodama and are not to be trifled with.

Best regards,

Peter Goldsbury
____________
P A Goldsbury,
Graduate Schol of Social Sciences,
Hiroshima University

thomas.rolf
26th September 2001, 10:56
Originally posted by hyaku



Mr Rolf

I was just trying to help and I think you missed the point! Using whatever you like to call it, Roman letters or English I believe the quote is please sign posts with your real name. Is Rorufu you "real" name and would you like to change it? A lot of foreigners living in Japan get rather frustrated being refered to by a name they were not born with.

We English use numbers too, but rarely refer to it as Arabic numerals. Perhaps Swedes dont?

Why don't you go ahead with your Kanji Inkan. Lets all have a good laugh.




I know your only helping and I'm thankful for that! I was only trying to be funny, but that aparantly did not work.. this time either! :D

No hard feelings I hope?

Thomas Rolf