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Stevo
18th September 2001, 16:40
Does anyone have info to offer on helping a student to overcome their fear of falling forward?

Recently I came across another student who has a morbid fear of performing anything that resembles a forward roll. This includes techniques such as bridge fall (O mae ukemi). It also affects their ability to perform a sideways flat fall over a horse.

This is a mature-age student. The problem appears to be fairly deep-set.

I've gone through the usual de-sensitising / confidence building exercises, such as rolling from a keeling position, rocking backwards and forwards from the left shoulder to the right knee, rolling sideways and progressing to forwards, kneeling diagonal roll, supported handstands, exercises for upper body strength, etc. The condition still persists.

If you know the magic cure for this one, or if you've suffered from this problem yourself and managed to overcome it , I'd really love to hear from you! :smilejapa

sistaninja
19th September 2001, 05:00
This is very hard. I'd certainly like to hear ideas on this too.

We have several students suffering the same problem and have done all the things you mention, and I have experienced something similar after being injured. A fear went into the system which has been hard to shake off. I also have something of a spatial problem where I can lose a sense of where I am in space - not very pleasant when being thrown. I have had some amusing ( read embarassing) tumbles.

First, I'll talk about students.

Older male students and some women seem to struggle in particular.

With a number of the students concerned we have recently tried some approaches which seem to be paying off.

One of my theories is that there can be an unconscious fear that the upperbody will not hold the bodyweight, and therefore they will crash. Even though experienced rollers know the upperbody is not actually doing much of the work if the roll is executed properly, no amount of convincing works.

Therefore, with these students we have eased off on the rolling expectations in the beginning of their training in the belief that some students may simply have a different learning sequence to others. We state that although rolling is an integral part of our art (ninjutsu) really from a self-defence point of view, breakfalling is more important.

This makes sense to the mind and the body (I believe this is because it is true)

We explain that of course, there will be consequences from not being able to roll in certain circumstances, and against another ninjutsu practitioner, sticking your hand out in a breakfall is asking for trouble. However, for personal defence, you can do without rolling and there are ways around it even in ninjutsu.

This eases up on the pressure. Because as you know, once students get a 'thing' about rolling, it is very hard to work through. And I know many leave simply because of rolling.

(I should say, as instructors, our bottome line is we are prepared to teach around this for those students who simply cannot get it. We say we train for the long haul - maybe this student will get to rolling later. We also do not know the history of each student which could be contributing to a particular difficulty (eg undealt with trauma))

The next strategy is to focus on building upper body strength and confidence - imprinting the capacity to 'hold oneself up'
- pushups, bag work, getting some muscle up!

Unlike many ninjutsu schools, we found we have had to go back to doing this type of training because our students just are not fit or coordinated enough and life in a big city is busy -so we do some of this in class to make sure it gets done.

The third strategy is a paradox. We have had some success with placing less emphasis on doing practice rolls and more on doing rolls in context of techniques eg the forward rolls seem to be easier when done from something like gansekinage, or evading a sword strike, than simply doing them as an exercise. Adrenalin may be a good teacher here. Unconsciously rolling may make more sense when there is a context. Ideally, this is best done with an experienced and confident 'thrower.' A good thrower will bring the roll out in the other person. This is a mature practitioner who is not out to show off!

And by 'context' I do not at this stage mean rolling over objects.

When we do this type of training we replace hard objects with soft or make believe objects eg when doing dive rolls we have several lines for students to choose from. The first one might be diving over a focus mitt, then over bags, then sticks, objects etc. Students of any grade can start back at the basics if they wish at any time. No comments, no judgements.

Alternatively we set up ukemi 'circuits' with say 4-5 different exercises - over/under, sideways backwards, with weapons etc - some students do them all. basically there are plenty of options so that everyone is occupied, no one is looking at anyone's elses performance, and no matter how basic the skill level is there is something achievable.

After setting all this up, we give the issue no more attention, and we notice bit by bit the more timid students giving harder things a go.

After trialling this approach, just recently after 8 - 10 months , 2 of the students who were real 'can't bear to watch' disasters when rolling, have started to roll out of techniques - they have done so in their own time and pace. Much to their delight.

You don't say how 'mature' your student is. One other observation I have is that older men will often risk injuring themselves in the most ridiculous manner just to keep up with the younger guys.

There could be good reason for this guy to respect his limitations.

Stevo
19th September 2001, 11:40
Hi Sistaninja. Thanks for your help - much appreciated! You raised a number of points and each one merits separate consideration:
Originally posted by sistaninja
This is very hard. I also have something of a spatial problem where I can lose a sense of where I am in space - not very pleasant when being thrown.
I've been able to rectify this previously, by using flat falls over a horse, whereby the student grips the "horse's" jacket. This helps by providing a reference point. It's also a safety check.

Older male students and some women seem to struggle in particular.
I think the problem is more closely related to body form than age or gender. It seems to affect students who are overweight, and students with little upper body strength. It also affects students who are less supple. Thinking back, I can't remember having a problem with ectomorphic students.

One of my theories is that there can be an unconscious fear that the upperbody will not hold the bodyweight, and therefore they will crash.

Agreed, hence the strengthening exercises.

We state that although rolling is an integral part of our art (ninjutsu) really from a self-defence point of view, breakfalling is more important.

In my humble opinion, it's more important for students to continue rolling into a standing position facing the attacker. This is good self defence. Rolling falls also allow you to retain your weapons. It's almost impossible to perform good flat falls if you have something in your hands. Also, rolling falls produce less stress on the body. The impact of the fall is dissipated over a larger surface area and longer time span. Therefore I prefer to see the elderly students using rolls instead of flat falls.

once students get a 'thing' about rolling, it is very hard to work through. And I know many leave simply because of rolling.
Agreed - it's very important to resolve the problem ASAP.

We also do not know the history of each student which could be contributing to a particular difficulty (eg undealt with trauma.
This is important too. As far as I know, there is no history of trauma.

Unconsciously rolling may make more sense when there is a context. Ideally, this is best done with an experienced and confident 'thrower.'
This also helps the student see through the immediate problem and concentrate on the outcome. It teaches them to look for the road instead of the potholes. My only concern in allowing someone who is not confident with rolling techniques to be thrown by another student, is duty of care.

Students of any grade can start back at the basics if they wish at any time. No comments, no judgements.

This is good teaching practise. In the specific case in question however, the student is losing confidence in her ability because she is unable to progress at the same rate as her training partners.

You don't say how 'mature' your student is. One other observation I have is that older men will often risk injuring themselves in the most ridiculous manner just to keep up with the younger guys.

The lady in question is mid-fortyish. Interestingly, her young son had the same problem. In his case though, the problem with upper body strength was purely a function of age vs physical development.

:)

sistaninja
20th September 2001, 01:57
Hi Steve

I agree with most of your points - accept what is probably only a slight nuance of difference/emphasis re rolling and breakfalling.

I have also seen some ectomorphs who collapse under their own weight and do not appreciate landing on their bony bits! particularly sans mats.


Also, rolling falls produce less stress on the body. The impact of the fall is dissipated over a larger surface area and longer time span. Therefore I prefer to see the elderly students using rolls instead of flat falls.

Of course, technically I agree with you re impact on body. But I guess I am saying that a frightened body will not believe you or me or even their own eyes/head. Actually, it is probably their eyes that are letting them down - what they see does not make sense! Flat breakfalling 'looks' easier and gives the body which does not believe it can roll, a viable 'interim' option. And I know from experience that it is perfectly possible to make the transition from breakfalling to rolling. (Also, from a self-defence perspective, although I agree rolling is superior, I think it also has pretty big limitations in the object ridden modern urban environment but that is probably another thread!)

I guess part of what I was saying is that until recently we too persisted with focusing on rolling - and if people had difficulties, did so in a specialised/remedial way. In fact, we prided ourselves as teachers in this area. And, as with your experience, this works with the majority of students. However, there are just that few who have a particular difficulty and we have watched their confidence lessen with each 'failure' and self-comparison with the rest of the class. This can be a bit agonising for all concerned! Not to mention the injury risk.

So - we tried this new approach and it seems to be working. We have noticed that people who might otherwise have given up have managed to hang in there - and they have injured themselves less as well.

We have reduced the focus on the individual's 'problem' by giving the body/mind/psyche another option which still allows them to participate fully in the class, and gives them very valid self-defence strategies.

We have reduced the focus on them as individuals by giving the whole class the options. In practice, we have found that this does not diminish the skill level of the whole class because most people naturally will move onto the higher level skill when ready. (Of course some require the occasional push - but not as often as one would think)

This approach has had several benefits. There is meaningful activity for more experienced students who may not have trained for a while or are recovering from injuries etc to start back at a lower skill level at their own pace. Equally, when allowed to self-select their activity level (under supervision of course) the majority of students have actually moved onto higher level skills more quickly than when we had a more structured 'grade by grade' approach.

The students who have become the 'problem rollers' can obviously blend, but also do not get any secondary gain in the form of teacher's/classmates attention. This is often a deceptively powerful unconscious issue when dealing with anxiety.

Even with this approach for a long while nothing much changed, the struggles went on, albeit with less obvious focus and attention and drama. However, just recently, as their strength, confidence etc etc have grown in other aspects of the art, these students have finally begun to roll - several "long" months after everyone else at their level has already achieved this goal.

It has just seemed to us that by allowing more time and space for rolling skills to develop over say, the first 8-10 months of training, maybe even 12 months, has paid off for these particular individuals. At the end of the day,though there is only so much teacher can do.

I may also be talking about more specifically about people who are expressing anxiety and lack of psychological and/or physical confidence - sometimes I have talked to such people years after they have been training and they have reported that they can barely remember anything of their first year of training because, in hindsight, they were in an anxious fog.

As for the mother/son dynamic - not surprising - but, well, over to you on that one....!

Stevo
20th September 2001, 05:16
Originally posted by sistaninja

We have reduced the focus on them as individuals by giving the whole class the options. In practice, we have found that this does not diminish the skill level of the whole class because most people naturally will move onto the higher level skill when ready.

....by allowing more time and space for rolling skills to develop over say, the first 8-10 months of training, maybe even 12 months, has paid off for these particular individuals. At the end of the day,though there is only so much teacher can do.


Hi Frances,

Your comments are valid and I too use this approach. Each member of the class is allowed to progress at their own pace. The falling exercises are designed to challenge their individual abilities without exceeding their capacity to perform them.

Students are never forced to do a technique. If a student is having problems, the technique or exercise is always scaled back to the point where they can make progress.

I agree that it's very important for students to learn in a non-threatening environment. This is probably even more important for mature age students, who may have been out of a learning environment for some time.

Encouragement also plays a huge part in reducing the problem. The actual "rolling over" part is only a small part of the total technique. If the student makes an improvement in the roll, eg, not hitting their head, standing up without losing their balance, hitting off correctly, having good "spirit" etc, then the improvement is acknowledged.

For the specific case in question, I feel that I may have led you astray. This particular student CAN perform forward roll, and can also perform flat falls reasonably well. She has been training for about 18 months. The problem is that she almost breaks out in a cold sweat every time she rolls forward. It's causing her a lot of stress, but she continues with her training.

That takes courage! Students like her are rare, and are worth their weight in gold. They are well worth hanging on to. :)

sistaninja
20th September 2001, 06:54
Steve

OK then - I understand a bit better. Yes - it does take courage!

I am stating the obvious then that this is clearly a psychological issue - I would suggest then something like a few sessions in hypnosis, or with a good behavioural psychologist (or even a sports psychologist) or a Neuro Linguistic Pprogramming practitioner would really help this woman. She obviously has the courage to deal with it at a physical level - so why not take the step to look at what is happening at another level. She really does not have to hang out in this agony...

I am a psychotherapist by trade and would suggest that she may be surprised at how easily the issue is resolved seeing as she has already done a lot of work to even get this far. When we do this much work on ourselves, some part in us is usually ready to let go of whatever issue is holding us back.

This was the other part of my response which I did not get to - seeking this type of assistance has helped me personally deal with whatever left over responses were keeping me from relaxing even though I could physically do the job.

I do not want to get too much into what may or may not be happening for this particular person.

But generally, a lot of people find that the fear of falling, or damaging a particular body part can be related even to things like early experiences of learning to walk and falling over becuase of no support. I have worked with some people who had forgotten some sort of trauma about falling off a swing or bike etc. Some people really got into trouble from mum or dad when these things happened and this comes back for them - any one of these and a zillion other reasons.

If she is having such an automatic response even after this time, and even after actually overcoming the issue at a skill level, then I would strongly suggest that her autonomic nervous system has this anxiety 'hard-wired' in at some level, and she needs some extra support to work through it. I would be surprised if this could not be resolved with a little extra work in this area.

Despite my trade, I am reluctant to go too much into student's private issues. However, I would be surprised if there are not some other anxieties going on somewhere - so assisting her see someone might be a good move anyway.

Just some more of my thoughts on an interesting subject.

Cheers

Stevo
20th September 2001, 18:08
Originally posted by sistaninja
... I am stating the obvious then that this is clearly a psychological issue - I would suggest then something like a few sessions in hypnosis, or with a good behavioural psychologist ...

You may be right - the thought had crossed my mind. If she indicates a willingness to discuss the issue I'll lend an ear. In the mean time I'll continue with the "Do No Harm" policy.

I have a number of other options that I need to check first. Some one-on-one private instruction will help.

I'm also expecting a new student of the same age, gender and build to join up this week. I'm sure this'll be mutually beneficial. The only other lady in the class at the moment is half her age and about six grades ahead.

Her other training partners, although at the same level, are young men (early twenties). They look after her. However, the men train more often - at least three times a week, and consequently they are progressing faster. I'm sure this is affecting her confidence.

sistaninja
21st September 2001, 00:22
Well Steve It seems to me that you are doing pretty much what an instructor can do - and more.

And I know breaching this kind of subject is difficult with students/anyone - as I said - despite my profession I really do appreciate that the dojo is where you can just come and train - regardless of whatever is going on, your past, your present, your future etc.

At the same time, responding slightly with my therapist's hat, I notice that you are clearly concerned about her and spending quite some time/energy thinking about the situation - when I am doing this I have learnt that there is generally something else which needs to happen.

The fact that her autonomic nervous system is reacting so much does suggest to me that it is not simply a matter of practice to overcome her fear - currently she is practicising being afraid just as much as whatever she is achieving in her rolling. And of course, it is important to respect her achievements - but you are clearly doing that and positive affirmation does not seem to be helping with her anxiety.

Of course, she does have to take the initiative, but I know from long experience that a lot of people are reluctant to mention things like counselling, hypnosis etc.

If the opportunity arises, or, if you want to sow some seeds which might stimulate an appropriate conversation, I sometimes suggest to start a conversation like, "I was talking to this woman the other day who has been doing martial arts for 20 years who is now in her 40's and she said she started having difficulties with rolling because of an old injury - it was very hard for her as she is a teacher as well. She told me she tried everything training wise but it didn;'t really help. She just stayed anxious about falling, getting hurt, all sorts of things. The longer it went on, the harder it became. She constantly worried about getting hurt or botching it up in front of her students - most of them are younger than her. Then she finally tried some hypnosis with a sports psychologist to get over the fear - she said it made a real difference. And she said it worked so quickly and well she wished she'd done it a lot sooner."

This type of sentence puts all the options in...if the time is right her ears will self-select the option/s that suit her - hypnosis, sport'spsychologist - or, perhaps, staying scared.

If you do the one on one option - maybe you could check pretty quickly with her whether it is helping - my personal experience was in my early days that the personal focus actually made me feel worse - anxiety generalises very, very quickly. But, it might be different for her.

I have one student who is very very similar - she actually left training after 18 months but emails every month or so saying she will come back when she feels she can deal with the rolling! She has been doing a program on confidence and communication - I have suggested she explores her rolling fears in this program. I wonder if it will make a difference -

Good luck with it all - this dialogues has helped clarify some things for me as well.

Cheers

Stevo
21st September 2001, 05:41
Thanks for the advice. Until I'm sure of the diagnosis, I'll sit back and observe. I might be wrong (yes, I've been wrong before!).

Anne Marie
21st September 2001, 09:03
You've gotten some great replies. But I would still like to give you my little story.

I'm 31 years old and started aikido at age 29. It took me from two to three months to learn to do a roll -- and a really bad one at that. I got a mental block after some "well-meaning" fellow student decided to throw me into a breakfall in my second class. After that, I would just stay stuck in that kneeling position looking at the ground and my hand position. But while I was in that position, I had just about every person in class trying to help me out. That was really annoying. I did not find any comments helpful. The comments became sounding more like impatience than support. Their words were fused with "geez, it's really easy."

How did I get over it? I went over to the really cushy mats, the ones that are about 6 inches thick after class one day and just starting doing the rolls anyway I knew how. I did it without any one watching. You see, my "roll" really wasnt' a roll at first. I was more like a tree falling so I had some pain issues as well. Not just falling.

The best thing to do with the fear of falling forward is get down as low to the mat as possible. Another useful trick is to do the following. I do this with newbies who are really afraid to roll.

1. Have them sit in seiza (in the active position).
2. While in seiza, have them put one knee to the front and one knee to the side. (left hanmi/stance). The upper thighs should almost be at 90 degrees.
3. If the person is in left hanmi, have them put their right hand down on the mat in front of the right knee and level with the left. (there should be some space.)
4. next, have the person take their free hand and put it between their arm and the right knee. (if they are doing this correctly the left shoulder should be touching the ground).
5. now, tell them to look at their armpit (this makes their body to start to go over. Their weight should be on their shoulder now. And she should feel the shoulder stretch).
6. then tell them to push up with their feet to the ceiling. (they should go over)
7. tad dah! they've done a roll.

This helped me develop my roll from the falling tree to a wheel. It also eliminates the fear of falling. (That's my big problem. It's not the pain.) It helps because you're on the ground already and it helps with minimize that fear factor. This is good too because it helps you get the feel of the roll as well.

I think the biggest thing I can stress is that don't put pressure on her to perform. That is what hindered me the most. Now once she does it, let her do it that way for a while. I think most of us want to correct someone right away. But this can be frustrating too. I've reverted in rolling skill when "helpful" students started correcting me. But she needs time to get used to the feeling. Once she does it. It won't be that scary. (But this might be a litte a head of ourselves.) But right now, I suggest that you degsignate only one person to talk to her about her rolls and this person should be instructed to give basic instruction and not to coach too much. (If she feels overwhelmed by extra assistance-- I did and it did hinder me).

This is coming from someone who is afraid to fall. I'm just really getting to learn my breakfalls after two years of aikido. I've had that mental block against breakfalls for that long and I've been taking that long to really learn how to roll really well. I'm now fortunate to be in a dojo that allows its student to go at its own pace and doesn't expect skilled ukemi after six months of training. And I can now do the high breakfalls as well.

The trick for me is to overcome the mental block. My mental block was analyzing everything I did to get over my fear. But dwelling on it made it worse. I over anaylzed what my body needed to do. I was to busy thinking, "right hand here, left hand here, tuck, be a ball, blend with mat, it won't hurt, it will work, just do it, this is simple, I can do it..." I never got to doing it.

Also I found it interesting that you found those overweight had more of a problem with rolling. I'm overweight as well. I am over weight because I'm not the typical athletic person. (I could be if I worker out two hours a day 7 days a week, but I have 15 years of bad habits to undo). My problem is that I'm more comfortable with my mind than with my body. I therefore analyze the things I do. In this case it was rolling, and now it's breakfalls and advanced rolls. Now my rolls are really great and my breakfalls are coming along.

I hope you can try out my suggestion. Please tell her this is coming from someone who was afraid to roll and who has overcome the feare, and I still face some problems as I advance but I'm more confident as I improve and "just doing it" comes more easily.

If anything, just give her my statement so she can know that she's not alone and not to feel that she can't do aikido because of it.

Anne Marie Giri
4th kyu
Florida Aikikai

Stevo
21st September 2001, 16:00
Hello Anne Marie! Thanks for the advice and the insights. I use all of the excersises you mention, including rolling from hanmi. I agree that they are very useful.

Can I ask, what was going through your mind when you were in position ready for the roll, but unable to initiate it?

Anne Marie
21st September 2001, 20:37
It's like this. I just went to go do it and I just couldn't do it. My mind goes, "nope, nope, nope, not gonna do it."

What makes it worse for me is the distance from the mat to the arm, shoulder. I would fixate on the mat, and that would make it worse. That's when I start thinking myself through and if I did that too much then I really couldn't do it.

I have the same problem in learning my forward breakfalls. I realized if someone just talked to me about something other than rolling my mind would be less focused on the mat and I would be able to just do it.

The hardest thing is doing it for the first time because no matter what people say you don't know how it feels until you do it yourself.

Anne Marie Giri

Joe D
21st September 2001, 23:07
Stevo,

I have had several students over the years incumbered by the "fear of the mat" you are describing. After reading the posts, it seems like we all take similar avenues when teaching rolling, especially to those who are not exactly thrilled with it.

Recently, I began using Mike Swain's ukemi ball with the students who are apprehensive wrt rolling. It seems as though the ball provides some mental comfort, along with alleviating the discomfort caused by slamming a shoulder into the mat, providing of course they stay connected to the ball, which is normally not a problem as hugging the ball is very natural, and creates and maintains the circle they need to roll forward.

They come in two sizes, and are relatively inexpensive. I bought two from Century MA supply.

Hope this helps,
Joe Diaco
Takemusu Aiki Dojo--NJ

Stevo
22nd September 2001, 07:18
Originally posted by Anne Marie
I would fixate on the mat, and that would make it worse. That's when I start thinking myself through and if I did that too much then I really couldn't do it.
Ah! Muso mushin. Mind / No mind.

Stevo
22nd September 2001, 07:21
Thanks for the advice, Joe. I haven't seen these ukemi balls.

sistaninja
23rd September 2001, 14:43
Steve - the 'ukemi' balls are very readily availably at sports stores/gym supplies - Opti-ball and Crystal Drop are 2 brands available in australia.

I am really interested in the balls and would like to hear more about how you use them for ukemi.

I know already they are a great tool for developing core stability and balance, and flexibility - which are important parts of rolling/falling - but are there specific exercises related to ukemi or is it a matter of just letting people 'play' around with them?

If you can spare time for an explanation it would be much appreciated.

Stevo
24th September 2001, 15:22
I haven't used the ukemi balls, though they sound like an interesting training aid. Joe D suggested them in his previous post.

I noticed in tonight's class that one of my students, who has difficulty in falling, was staring at the mat in front of him prior to performing a forward roll. He was trying to keep his chin tucked into his chest but still has his eyes on the mat. Every time he tried to roll his chin would come off his chest because he was looking forward. Consequently the roll was losing form.

The same thing was happening when he performed sideways flat fall over a horse (his partner). As he went over the horse he was looking to see where he was going to land. He was not turning his body into the direction of the fall.

I asked him to try forward roll again and instructed him to shift his gaze to a spot on the mat about two metres behind him. The roll immediately improved. We did same thing with the sideways flat fall over the horse, which resulted in a similar improvement.

The head is fairly heavy. By shifting the gaze, the head shifts also. Where the eyes go the follows. This changes the centre of gravity, which starts the roll. I know I'm not telling anyone anything new, because we use the same principle in many different ways (eg O goshi).

In the case of forward roll however, I thnk it makes it easier for students if they are advised to tuck their chin into the shoulder AND to look under their body, past their knee, to a point on the mat a couple of metres behind them.

Comments?

Anne Marie
24th September 2001, 17:53
Along a similar vein, my rolls significantly improved when I started looking for the ceiling as I began my roll. By doing so, I naturally tuck my chin without having to think, "tuck chin," and my body follows. :)

Anne Marie Giri

sistaninja
25th September 2001, 02:30
I agree with the eye focus being a great help - 'where the eyes go the body follows.'

However,for myself this worked when it workerd, but there was even something about the eye focus which was difficult when in the worst of my deficiency!

I actually had difficulty 'finding' the place to focus on with my eyes. My analysis is that, for me, anxiety sent the focus inwards - that is, although I might look as though I am focusing on the mat in front, actually my real focus is intensely inward. It is the perceived 'gap' between inside and outside that is the problem in a sense.

So - for me, although the eye focus is important, it has also been important to develop an internal sense of my own centre - regardless of where I actually am in space.

So - interestingly, what I came back to is martial arts basics - awareness of hara. This is part of my 'visualisation' to train myself through - that I am moving around my centre. Physically this means tightening (although not tensing) around my hara, firming my abdominal muscles. Contracting and then expanding as I come out of the roll.

I also found making myself say something out loud - like 'yes' or 'flow' - or even a long breathy sound like 'whoosh' made me breath out. Most people having difficulty hold their breath.

Stevo
25th September 2001, 11:21
Yes, breathing out during the roll is important and seems to help. Funny, we never teach it but everyone does it. It's easier to bend forward when you breathe out.

Tell me - could you do a "gym" roll (neck roll) before you tried doing forward roll?

Stevo
25th September 2001, 11:25
Originally posted by Anne Marie
Along a similar vein, my rolls significantly improved when I started looking for the ceiling as I began my roll. By doing so, I naturally tuck my chin without having to think, "tuck chin," and my body follows.
Anne Marie Giri

Thanks Anne Marie - good feedback.

sistaninja
26th September 2001, 04:20
Yes - I could do a gym roll, and when younger I could even trampoline and do the high bars in gymnastics - so 'go figure' as they say! But, interestingly, the more I did it, the worse it might get - and the same goes for rolling. So - there is an energetic fatigue which creeps in, because even though I can do it, there is still something that is not quite comfortable. This is the injury danger zone!

I do not want to get too esoteric here, but another way of describing what we are all taking about one way or another is the capacity of martial arts training to help re-wire and re-structure the body, mind and spirit to do and be things beyond our normal or habitual capacities.

Ukemi is just one of those things I think which brings us intensely in contact with our own system. patterns, structural strenghts and weaknesses etc. When rolling you are constantly involved in a whole-body, mind & spirit feedback loop. On an energetic level your meridiens are given a good stretch as well - no doubt releasing all sorts of energies into your system to deal with.

As I was alluding to in my earlier emails, anxiety is not just a head thing - chemicals are released in the system and certain contractions of muscles, nerves and blood vessels etc can become hard-wired into the system over time. So - there's a lot going on!

My fellow teacher is a judoka from way back - she rolls and throws easily in comparison to me. She has no problems with holding her own balance nor with taking anybody else's. But, when first confronted with full on kicks, punches etc in stand up fighting, a lot of anxiety took over and she fought back like a tense demon! (The other person usually landing very painfully on the ground by the way! ...my system has still not gotten over that one!) She is much better now, but even to this day, she expends more energy than I do when fighting in this way.
On the other hand, I am very relaxed with stand up fighting and can outlast plenty of people much younger and fitter than I am.

So - horses for courses. Our preferences for complimentary cross -training are quite different she heads to aikido - me - I am off to kung fu, kickboxing etc where I can relax. In reality, we would probably benefit from it being the other way round!

Your questions about what people are actually experiencing when having problems have been useful in helping re-focus my attention.

And Ann Marie - I will try the looking for the ceiling myself tonight, and get beginning students to give it a go as well.

Fran