Shinto musoryu jo kiai

[Christiaan]

Can anybody offer some explanations about the two different kiai in SMR jo? Why two, why these,why the difference...

Thank you!

[RDeppe]

It's a shame no one senior has answered this post or at least replied (maybe they have been busy).

I don't know the answer. It may be that after more training I will be given direct instruction regarding the Kiai-- I don't know-- but I have been training for a decent amount of time and haven't received any interesting information to date.

One answer might be is that the kiai are some what arbitrary-- different ryu have different kiai with the same kinds of rules (you kiai this way here and this way there) and it's likely that they are related to ancient esoteric ways of thinking about sound & body (look up stuff on kotodama for more on that).

Good luck & keep training.

[Christiaan]

Thank you for your reply. The radio-silence is remarkable indeed. I hope more people can come up with sound (!) explanations. I can figure some out too, but it would remain guessing...

[Chrchr]

Interesting question about the kiai. I have also practiced a little with smr and have asked about the kiai. I never got a straight answer. An other question I have for some time is, why some ryuha use a tsuba and others don't. Can't imagen this is coincidental.

Chris.

[Jeff Hamacher]

Originally posted by Chrchr
An other question I have for some time is, why some ryuha use a tsuba and others don't.
Chris,

use the thread search function on E-Budo with the simple keyword "tsuba" and i'm sure you'll turn up a discussion held just a little while back on this exact topic. sorry i didn't run the search for you but i'm almost out of skiving time at work ... for today at least.:D

hope this helps,

PS i'd still like to know more about the original question for this thread ... i guess the senior folk are tied up.

[Meik Skoss]

C. Zandt wrote:

"Can anybody offer some explanations about the two different kiai in SMR jo? Why two, why these, why the difference?"

"Ei!," the kiai used for uchiwaza is a common kiai, used in many of the classical martial arts. It's short, easy to clamp down on one's breath, and thus allows for an explosive movement, generating a lot of power at the end of the movement.

"Ho!," used for tsukiwaza, has a more open feeling to it and, from what I was told, can be performed in a manner that allows one to penetrate deeply into the opponent's body.

Or so I was told.

I suspect another valid answer, is "because that's how we do it in Shinto Muso-ryu." It is the traditional method and, presumably, the result of of experience and experimentation by the founder of the ryu and (maybe) other senior exponents.

Dunno if this answers the question, but that's the answer I was given way back when. Good question, by the way.

[charlesl]

Uh, this is probably even less valuable and more unqalified than my usual, uh, "contributions", but a friend of mine who trains with a different SMR group and has many years of experience more than I once told me that the "ho" had something to do with an arrow hitting the target, adding something about the arrow once shot having total commitment, as the thrusting attack should have, or something like that.

I remember thinking at the time that maybe "thunk" was too hard to write in Japanese ;)

-Charles Lockhart

[Jack B]

The kiai I have heard are EI for strikes and HO for thrusts. I have also heard AT for short jabs without follow-through. The latter seems to tighten the body for smaller thrusts. EI is a longer sound that you constrict at will at the end of a strike, while HO is an open-ended sound that supports driving power.

My koryu instructors say it is not budo without kiai, but my gendai instructors say the kiai is (should be) there even if it not audible.

Jack Bieler
Denton, Texas

"thunk"?

[charlesl2]

"thunk."

I remember reading that in a comic book when I was a kid, the "sound" they printed to represent the Green Arrow hitting a target. Now it's my default onomatopoeia when I think of an arrow striking a target. A nice, meaty "thunk."

really, it's not past tense for think ;o)

-Charles

[charlesl]

Not meaning to usurp this thread, but wanted to throw this out:

In regards to the kiai for the Shinto ryu kenjutsu stuff, the kia for cutting seems to be the same for jo strikes, only compacted. Is there a different kiai for thrusts (should we be using "ho," or is there something else)? I asked around in my group, but nobody was 100% sure.

-Charles Lockhart