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Sgathak
23rd October 2001, 20:22
http://www.libertocracy.com/Webessays/Sports/abuse/Martial_Child_Abuse.htm



J Robbins

John Bowden
23rd October 2001, 20:40
Originally posted by Sgathak
http://www.libertocracy.com/Webessays/Sports/abuse/Martial_Child_Abuse.htm

This is one of the most bizarre and funny things that I have read in many moons!

If it is comedy, it is truly hilarious. If it was meant seriously, then it is even more entertaining.! :)

I esspecially liked the part where they say that the children should be taught self defense....against their monstrous parents and subhumanoid pimp martial art teachers.

That essay is one of the best examples of irrational polemic that it's ever been my priviledge of reading. Even Don could take a lesson from the author! ;)

bgb
23rd October 2001, 23:15
Oh, my!

What must they think of me--a female instructor who not only regularly spars members of the opposite sex but also encourages her children to do so?

At least I don't make any money off it. Must be doing it wrong.

Barb Bloom

Ermac6
24th October 2001, 01:32
What the hell is that about? This person on crack?

I've had to spar against girls, and I think that they can defend themselves pretty damn well. We have one in the dojo that could kick a lot of our butts. I think it is funny how this person thinks of it as "cockfighting".

Brent Leach

Walter Kopitov
24th October 2001, 16:17
It must be written by a Taliban member due to his views on women.
Walt

sean_stonehart
24th October 2001, 16:49
That dude is seriously disturbed. :smash:
Those views of his... :saw:
Man, I'm glad he's not one of my parents & what he must think of me because I'm an instructor.:nono:

George Hyde
24th October 2001, 17:00
Hi All,

Trying desperately to take this moron seriously, I believe his general concern towards the 'brutalising' of children carries some weight, presupposing that the activity is brutal. Sadly, this is not impossible to conceive - I have heard the "a good bashing is good for them… it builds character" argument before and it makes me cringe.

Having said that I despair at this extremist reactionary stance. Like almost all such individuals, he typically contradicts himself on several points with such irrefutable confidence, that if it weren't serious one would have no option but to fall about laughing. How anyone can argue against the stereotyping of women and then insist that conventional roles be observed/imposed and then denounce activities as encouraging violence and advocate the most violent measures to deal with it is frankly beyond me.

I'm at a loss.

Later,

Kimpatsu
25th October 2001, 07:39
Hi, all.

Having said that I despair at this extremist reactionary stance. Like almost all such individuals, he typically contradicts himself on several points with such irrefutable confidence, that if it weren't serious one would have no option but to fall about laughing. How anyone can argue against the stereotyping of women and then insist that conventional roles be observed/imposed and then denounce activities as encouraging violence and advocate the most violent measures to deal with it is frankly beyond me.
Well said, George. :wave:
The author clearly doesn't understand budo (i.e., the way to stop violence) at all; he equates MA with violence. It seems his main objections stem from the belief that while males are naturally aggressive (all that testosterone, I suppose), females are naturally docile and sweet. Anyone care to disabuse him of that quaint 19th century notion? It reminds me of an incident over 10 years ago, when I was captain of Brixton Shorinji Kempo dojo, and we were responsible for organizing the British taikai that year. One of the sports centre employees gave me such a hard time, I asked her point-blank what her problem was, and she snapped, "You're teaching violence against women!" as the reply. These extreme ideas, that MA training encourages violence, is one of the many misconceptions with which we have to cope in daily life in the West. Looking over the rest of the homepage, the author seems to be one of those ultra-right wing American conspiracy nuts ("all government is evil"), so I guess reasoning with him is out.
Got to go now: I'm off to abuse some more children :D .
Best to all,

ScottUK
25th October 2001, 22:58
I may be causing a fight here, but I just emailed the guy who wrote this (Gregory something or other) and asked him to comment on this thread. Should be interesting if he does. Please - everybody email him with the same.

Scott
Firestarter of the Day

Ermac6
26th October 2001, 04:34
Maybe this guy had a bad experience as a child with the martial arts, who knows. Maybe he just doesnt like the martial arts and wants to try to take the some of the morons who are teaching it wrong and say that "all of the styles and instructors are like this".

Brent Leach

Ermac6
26th October 2001, 04:37
sorry about the the in front of some, I was in a hurry to type.

Brent Leach

kenshorin
28th October 2001, 14:11
Because this article was so painful and long and exceedingly pigheaded, let me summarize some of the major points through quotes for anyone who hasn't read it yet, and add my* interpretation, and in some cases a humorous comment...
*does not reflect the opinions or ideas of e-budo, etc. etc. (legal mumbo jumbo for when the writer of this article comes to sue everyone)

"Parents who put their little girls into martial arts fighting classes or who make boys fight girls"
Two words... sexist much? This person obviously think girls should be playing withg their dolls preparing to be in the kitchen barefoot, pregnant and cooking for the rest of their lives.

"...but they push their little children, both boys and girls to fight one another like filthy degraded animals in martial combat."
This sounds like a line taken directly out of Mortal Kombat. Is that what the author thinks happens in a class, regardless of the martial art being practiced? A kickfighting, to the death tournament? sheesh.

"it makes forcing children into pornography appear tame by comparison"
quite possibly the most disturbing quote I have ever read. NOTHING makes child pornography look tame.

"...promised to build self-confidence and respect, instead "Former students say they..learned fear and humiliation, suffered physical and sexual abuse and watched helplessly as children were physically punished," according to the Denver Post." ... "It's pretty pathetic that they have to run a school based on intimidation and abuse." ... "They scare the hell out of kids. They pee their pants because they're afraid to ask if they can go the bathroom"
Unfortunately there are schools out there like this, and this is not the first I have heard of such practices. This is one of the few intelligently worded things in this article. Had real research been done, the author could have possibly used this to write an ok article on bad budo...

"Of course girls, naturally, would never have had any desire to participate in anything like this and would have found it intolerable, except, that these girls are pushed into it by abusive parents who demean feminine expression in their daughters at the earliest possible age and only give praise and respect when they behave like boys"
More disgusting sexism.

"American version of female genital mutilation, only martial abuse is much worse."
Another quote that disturbs me. Genital mutilation is a monsterously heinous act, and for this person to try and equate the two sickens me.

"Training boys to fight girls teaches them that violence against females is acceptable"
Although we might look at this statement as being completely false, there are people out there who because of seeing females in martial situations this has happened, so another interesting point of discussion is raised. For the average normal human being, this is not the case but I have heard of this before, in extreme cases with wackjobs.

"The pimps who organize this abusive exploitation"
I'm a pimp now! excellent...

"It was a system of manipulation and worship. I would call it a cult," said one former student.
This also happens, and it is a shame that it does.

Now I'm gunna skip to the very bottom because reading this is just making me ill.

"perverting the relationship between the sexes, destroying the family, emasculantizing females to serve the patriarchy and raising future mercenary terrorists."
Destroying the family... ah the sweet sounds of sexist male-power pigs. Whenever a female tries to be equal with a man, these retards say they are "destroying the family structure". Refer back to my statement about the kitchen for what they really mean :D

Ultimately, what this article is doing is taking some of the worst of what martial arts can be ("bad budo" as we all know it) and equating it for the whole, even though bad budo in the sense that it is damaging ego-driven wackos running the dojo make up less than 1% of all budo. There are more schools out there who are in it for money, but are not necessarily damaging to their students. Not only that, the author tries to throw in his keep-women-down-and-disguise-it-as-traditionalism. I found this article, not humorous, but painful to read because it is being said seriously, and making light of kiddie porn etc. to bash a legitimate institution such as martial arts by "exposing" the .00005% black sheep of the MA world is disgusting. He tries to include articles by Kim Soo, Sean Kelly, and our own Don Cunningham as "evidence", but if you actually read the articles, they clearly state that the abusive schools are the vast minority and not the rule. In each of the articles, they all mention that they are long time martial artists. If "all" martial arts are so damaging, why would any of these people he is citing as evidence stick with it? He is hoping people don't actually look at his "evidence". I did. Oops.