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IKE
27th October 2001, 19:24
Hello. What are some good cutting targets when one is low on the funds and cant afford all that tatami? I am referring to cutting with the Katana. I had heard that fruit and vegs will rust your sword. Any ideas? thanks.

Carl Elder
27th October 2001, 21:23
Yes, fruit and veg do rust your blade, I found that out the hard way :( What ive been useing lately, is milk jugs filled with water, they work pretty good, you can either sit them on something or you can tie a string to the handle and hang them from a tree branch and cut them. You can even draw targets on the jugs, or 2 lines and try to stay inbetween them, or one line and try to cut it. Like back in school, cut on the dotted line :) I usually make sure i wipe off my sword before returning it to the saya, and clean it right after im done. But if you have a stainless steel blade it doesnt matter, you can cut anything and it wont rust or stain, hence "stainless" steel :D Hope this helps.

IKE
28th October 2001, 01:56
Thanks for the reply.
If the fruits will rust the blade wont the jug of water do the same? Ive seen people use the jugs of water. If the cleaning process takes care of the blade after cutting the jugs, couldnt you use the same process to clean after cutting the fruits and be Ok? Could you describe the cleaning process of a quality high carbon steel blade?


Also 'stainless' is misleading. Ive seen rusted stainless blades, and have been told to take it to mean 'stains less'.;)

fifthchamber
28th October 2001, 08:39
Hello,
Regarding your question on the differences between fruit generally and water I think the answer may lie in the fact that most fruit has a higher acidity content than, say, a jug of water..While water will eventually rust the blade it should be OK provided it is cleaned after the session..Acid in fruit however could eat into the blade..I am not too sure but it may be OK to do this once or twice..constant 'Fruit cutting' would lead to a possibility of flaws in your blade..I suppose it depends on if you can afford to do this to your Katana or wether you like to keep it fully functional.
The milk jugs do sound like an innovative idea though...How do they compare to Tatami padding?
You could also try to get many layers of Beach mats (here in the U.K. they are made of a similar material to tatami and a few layers tightly bundled around a central piece of bamboo provides a very cheap way of forming what is otherwise not exactly cheap!!
Hope this helps you..
Abayo.

kenshorin
31st October 2001, 19:00
Originally posted by fifthchamber
Hello,
Regarding your question on the differences between fruit generally and water I think the answer may lie in the fact that most fruit has a higher acidity content than, say, a jug of water.

You are correct. Pure water has a relatively balanced pH, and honestly takes a long time to rust steel. It is usually the sediments and minerals in the water that cause steel to rust quickly. Fruits and vegetables, however, are all over the scale when it comes to pH, and also have a high mineral and sugar content, which will "eat" away at the blade, not just oxidize it. After cutting fruits, you would want to use special solvents to try and clean off as much of the mineral deposits as possible, and to negate any acid that might be on the steel.

I have used newspaper before, and it worked pretty well. What we did was, took about one or two sheets, roll them fairly tight (the tighter the roll the more resistance) and then bundle large groups of those rolls together with rope with a bamboo core. It is no replacement for the real tatami, but if you roll it and bundle it correctly you can get a similar feel. It takes time to prepare and takes some messing around to get it right, but is good on the wallet as there is always spare newspaper sitting around. Not only that, after you are done you can recycle your cut mess. :laugh: Be sure to clean the blade afterward though, as sometime traces of newspaper ink can stay on the blade, and possibly stain it if left long enough, but if cleaned properly right after (which you should be doing anyways after any cutting exercise) won't cause too much of a problem. I have wondered if washing the paper and allowing it to dry takes some of the ink out, as well as making it a little "crisper" which is what happens to newspaper when it is wet and dried. I have thought about making the small rolls, washing them down, and allowing them to dry, then bundling them; or bundling then wetting and allowing to dry, but haven't really messed with that yet. Be kinda like what the Japanese do to make real tatami rolls, where they bundle them then soak and leave out for a while then cut. Play around with it and see what results you get.

Nathan Scott
31st October 2001, 21:01
Hello,

I would offer a caution about cutting "unconventional" materials. Some may be o.k., but others are not.

Contributors might also think twice before telling other people they don't know on the internet what is "o.k." to cut, because it may not be o.k. for them. Everyone has varied experience levels, types of swords and tradition policies (as to what types of materials are allowed for cutting).

Giving advice like this is as risky and (to some degree) unethical as giving medical or legal advice to others under the same conditions.

Stainless steel production swords are not appropriate for practice or cutting by any standards, btw.

The best advice for questions like this is:

"Ask your instructor"

If you don't have an instructor (formal kenjutsu instruction by a qualified instructor of an art that uses real Japanese swords), you don't have any business using a live blade.

Because,

You wouldn't want to end up as an entry on this list:

Sword Related Accidents (http://www.tsuki-kage.com/darwin.html)

Respectfully,