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Tuomas
30th October 2001, 10:57
Lots of my friends and teachers say that practicing taiji does good for ones judo? Anyone with experience or insight?


_______
Tuomas Peltomäki

tommysella
30th October 2001, 11:24
What's Taiji?

Regards,
Tommy

PeteBoyes
30th October 2001, 12:43
It 'sounds like' Toumas means Tai Chi :) .

If you can find someone to teach you then I'm sure it will help you. But it's for you to try and decide for yourself.

If you'd asked somebody else they would have recommended you do Yoga, or rugby, or boxing, or Taibo, or Sambo, or, or......

Try it and see. Don't just take someone elses word for it.

Pete.

MarkF
31st October 2001, 07:10
Taiji and tai chi are the same thing. It is another acceptable romanization of Tai Chi.

Judo does a lot of damage to the body over the years, and when you begin to realize the injuries are more permanent than you thought they were, taiji is a sound art to try. Even for the active judoka, it can help tremendously in learning to be a "soft" judoka and it may hold off some injuries due to strain on the body. Or not.

Now where is that bottle of Advil?:look:

Mark

Tuomas
31st October 2001, 10:21
I'm considering this more from the beginners point of view. When I do randori with my mates, it tends to get very quickly very agressive, so that learning becomes quite hard.

Tai Chi (=Taiji), I've visited one class as of yet, made me more aware of how my hips and abdomen move and use the muscles.
And focusing on your balance was emphasized.
And that's good in judo, eh?

So none of you people have practiced Tai Chi?

__________
Tuomas Peltomäki

dakotajudo
3rd November 2001, 14:49
Originally posted by Tuomas


Tai Chi (=Taiji), I've visited one class as of yet, made me more aware of how my hips and abdomen move and use the muscles.
And focusing on your balance was emphasized.
And that's good in judo, eh?

So none of you people have practiced Tai Chi?


I've practiced tai chi, most heavily when I couldn't find judo partners. Now that I got a few people to randori with regularly, I find I don't have much interest in tai chi.

If you're interested in hip and ab awareness and conditioning, I recommend Pilates. It's a physical culture regime from about the same era as judo that emphasizes coordinated body movements and core strength.

I've been doing Pilates about twice a week for the past year, and I certainly feel my judo has improved.

Tuomas
3rd November 2001, 16:27
Hey, that sounds interesting! Do you know a link where I might obtain more information on Pilates?

________
Tuomas Peltomäki

Hiroshi
5th November 2001, 17:41
Are we talking about Taijiquan as a martial art, or as an exercise?

Tuomas
6th November 2001, 12:27
Good question.

Err... I am referring to the excercise. But discussion about the martial art bit is also welcomed.

Tuomas Peltomäki

Hiroshi
6th November 2001, 17:05
Well, as a martial art it would probably fit well with Judo, since it has many joint locks and throws.

MarkF
7th November 2001, 08:43
I've known a few MAists with three plus decades of judo and/or other MA, begin a Taiji course because it helps in maintaining suppleness of the joints, etc, which seems to always make an appearance at some point. Judo can be hard on the body, so this can only be a help.

Whether it is for the martial intent or the health benefits I think it does compliment judo well, and helps to those who are active after forty, fifty, etc.

Mark

Kit LeBlanc
10th November 2001, 04:02
I studied taijiquan, mainly Chen style, and then a pared down version of xing yi quan ( yi quan ) with many similarities for total almost eight years before coming to judo.

I am not a big proponent of solo forms, particularly very long, very slow ones that despite the hype have virtually nothing to do with fighting. You learn a lot more about relaxed power, flowing, and feeling and reacting to another person's "energy" through two person exercises, and in my opinion pushing hands does not go far enough. It is a good exercise, but judo puts you under much more pressure, gives you a non-cooperative opponent, AND requires you to have the same level of proper relaxation (in theory, at least, if we are trying to do JUdo...)

Add the pressure and non-cooperation to push hands and you basically get sumo with ridiculous deep back bends, to the oft stated dismay of taiji purists who hate the whole idea of push hands tournaments that are held in Chinese martial arts circles.


The true gold in arts like taiji and xing yi is in the neigong (pronounced nay-gung) or "internal exercises." If a teacher ONLY teaches the form, or form and rudimentary push hands, there are many who would say he is NOT teaching real taiji. Neigong is the root of the internal arts.

Ever notice that LOTS of taiji teachers have very poor basic posture, look sickly and pale, die young (check it out if ya don't believe me...) Those are the folks that do "form only" and ironically practice "taiji for health." They often move and twist in ways that place the joints at precarious angles (particularly back and knees), have "collapsed" flaccid posture, and you get the feeling of withdrawn, sallow energy instead of shining health.

Then check out teachers like Chen Xiaowang, Feng Zhiqiang, Yang Zhenduo. Middle aged and old men with glowing skin, jet black hair, HUGE thighs and solid as a rock. They look like athletes with some padding around the middle. That comes from taiji with neigong properly done. When they move it flows but it flows with power, their joints open, arms and legs are rounded like bows, or "hoses with water flowing through them" and backs straight "like a tablet."

Neigong example: in class we would do "standing post" for 45 mintues - two hours. Standing post is generally associated with xing yi and yi quan but taiji, bagua, baji and many other Chinese arts practice it in different forms.

There are certain ways of holding the body and connecting the body in an open, relaxed but not flaccid state and then training those connections to ever finer degrees under more and more pressure (lower stances, more weight on one leg, etc.). The teacher would constantly adjust our bodies to lead us into the connections and would allow us to feel his body when he did neigong and power issuing exercises (fa jing). Eventually you should do moving exercises for flow and for explosive power, and then walking connection exercises and power issuing exercises to develop more practical use of "tenacious" but not tight strength. Such instruction is crucial after the basic levels.

Will taiji help? Under a good instructor, with the proper neigong stuff you betcha it will. I had a nagging knee pain (from doing Chinese MA poorly) when I started doing neigong placing my knees in the proper position that disappeared and has never returned. A pulled ham that, while it still bothers me when stretching it has considerably lessened and maintains full range of motion (nice when trying to get out of knee bars and leg locks!).

And this was after putting increasing pressure on my legs in training BUT doing it properly. I have another health problem which I personally now feel doing the standing practice helped immeasurably with. I had many problems with it until starting regular practice, and all during my practice it subsided to a much more manageable level. I have not practiced neigong almost at all in five years and the latter health concern is acting up again, so I think I'll be starting up again. In China they actually prescribe standing exercises for patients with a variety of maladies.

Will it help softness and center in judo? I think so, but it needs to be applied differently, 'cause as I said above judo gives a lot more pressure, and is a lot more mobile than push hands. I am still working on this last.....

Sorry for the length but I got lost in reverie....

Kit

Kit LeBlanc
11th November 2001, 15:24
On Standing Post from EJMAS:

http://www.ejmas.com/pt/ptframe.htm

Scroll down to "Standing like a Stake: Internal Pathway to Power."

Another website from an internal arts practitioners who was also a full contact fighter and BJJ man, so he has some insights on how neigong applies to elements of judo. Check out the discussion board:

http://www.shenwu.com

Kit