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Nami
3rd November 2001, 03:36
:karatekid

Greetings All. I'd like to start a harmless debate. I have read in Aikidofaq.com that the Hakama is worn by those Aikidoka (I believe that is what we call ourselves), whom have attained Black Belt satus. But I have also read that some schools have allowed women to wear the Hakama for modesty reasons (which I find absured since Gi Pants cover myself very well, thank-you). But here is an interesting little factoid....O-Sensi *demanded* all of his students wear Hakama...no ifs ands or buts! Here is the paragraph from the webpage:

O Sensei was rather emphatic that EVERYONE wear the hakama, but he came from a time/culture not too far from wearing hakama as standard formal wear.


"Most of the students were too poor to buy a hakama but it was required to wear one. If they couldn't get one from an older relative, they would take the cover off an old futon, cut it, dye it, and give it to a seamstress to make into a hakama.
Since they had to use cheap dye, however, after awhile the colorful pattern of the futon would start to show through and the fluff from the futon would start to work its way out of the material."
Saito Sensei, about hakama in O Sensei's dojo in the old days.


"In postwar Japan many things were hard to get, including cloth. Because of the shortages, we trained without hakama. We tried to make hakama from air-raid blackout curtains but because the curtains had been hanging in the sun for years, theknees turned to dust as soon as we started doing suwariwaza. We were constantly patching these hakama. It was under those conditions that someone came up with a suggestion: "Why don't we just say that it's okay not to wear a hakama until you're shodan?" This idea was put forward as a temporary policy to avoid expense. The idea behind accepting the suggestion had nothing to do with the hakama being a symbol for dan ranking."

Shigenobu Okumura Sensei, "Aikido Today Magazine" #41

"When I was uchi deshi to O Sensei, everyone was required to wear a hakama for practice, beginning with the first time they stepped on the mat. There were no restrictions on the type of hakama you could wear then, so the dojo was a very colorful place. One saw hakama of all sorts, all colors and all qualities, from kendo hakama, to the striped hakama used in Japanese dance, to the costly silk hakama called sendai-hira. I imagine that some beginning student caught the devil for borrowing his grandfather's expensive hakama, meant to be worn only for special occasions and ceremonies, and wearing out its knees in suwariwaza practice.
I vividly remember the day that I forgot my hakama. I was preparing to step on the mat for practice, wearing only my dogi, when O Sensei stopped me. "Where is your hakama?" he demanded sternly. "What makes you think you can receive your teacher's instruction wearing nothing but your underwear? Have you no sense of propriety? You are obviously lacking the attitude and the etiquette necessary in one who pursues budo training. Go sit on the side and watch class!"
This was only the first of many scoldings I was to receive from O Sensei. However, my ignorance on this occasion prompted O Sensei to lecture his uchi deshi after class on the meaning of the hakama. He told us that the hakama was traditional garb for kobudo students and asked if any of us knew the reason for the seven pleats in the hakama.
"They symbolize the seven virtues of budo," O Sensei said. "These are jin (benevolence), gi (honor or justice), rei (courtesy and etiquette), chi (wisdom, intelligence), shin (sincerity), chu (loyalty), and koh (piety). We find these qualities in the distinguished samurai of the past. The hakama prompts us to reflect on the nature of true bushido. Wearing it symbolizes traditions that have been passed down to us from generation to generation. Aikido is born of the bushido spirit of Japan, and in our practice we must strive to polish the seven traditional virtues."
Currently, most Aikido dojo do not follow O Sensei's strict policy about wearing the hakama. Its meaning has degenerated from a symbol of traditional virtue to that of a status symbol for yudansha. I have traveled to many dojo in many nations. In many of the places where only the yudansha wear hakama, the yudansha have lost their humility. They think of the hakama as a prize for display, as the visible symbol of their superiority. This type of attitude makes the ceremony of bowing to O Sensei, with which we begin and end each class, a mockery of his memory and his art.
Worse still, in some dojo, women of kyu rank (and only the women) are required to wear hakama, supposedly to preserve their modesty. To me this is insulting and discriminatory to women aikidoka. It is also insulting to male aikidoka, for it assumes a low-mindedness on their part that has no place on the Aikido mat.
To see the hakama put to such petty use saddens me. It may seem a trivial issue to some people, but I remember very well the great importance that O Sensei placed on wearing hakama. I cannot dismiss the significance of this garment, and no one, I think, can dispute the great value of the virtues it symbolizes. In my dojo and its associated schools I encourage all students to wear hakama regardless of their rank or grade. (I do not require it before they have achieved their first grading, since beginners in the United States do not generally have Japanese grandfathers whose hakama they can borrow.) I feel that wearing the hakama and knowing its meaning, helps students to be aware of the spirit of O Sensei and keep alive his vision.
If we can allow the importance of the hakama to fade, perhaps we will begin to allow things fundamental to the spirit of Aikido to slip into oblivion as well. If, on the other hand, we are faithful to O Sensei's wishes regarding our practice dress, our spirits may be more faithful to the dream to which he dedicated his life."
Mitsugi Saotome Sensei, "The Principles Of Aikido"


What do you make of all this?

Nami
3rd November 2001, 03:56
To answer my own post, I feel I agree with Mitsugi Saotome Sensei. It appears that the Hakama has like the black belt become a status symbol of achievement. If anything, I think the hakama should be worn by beginers so that they can remember thoughout thier training, from kyu to dan and beyond, the 7 virtues of Budo: Benevolence, honor, respect, wisdom, sincerity, loyalty, and piety.As I put it on, I would try to recite each virtue and how I might show it within the dojo, and how I would show it outside the dojo as I remove it and gently fold it to be put away.
I would look upon it as a sign of respect to O-sensei and those after him, and reflect not on what I *have* learned, but on what *I will always be learning*

Chris Li
3rd November 2001, 07:06
Originally posted by Nami
What do you make of all this?

Well, origins of the custom notwithstanding, Morihei Ueshiba was still around (and in charge) of things long after there was plenty of cloth to make hakama for everybody. That he didn't bother to change the policy says to me that he didn't feel it an important enough issue to bother with.

I also notice that, status symbol or not, Mitsugi Saotome still gives out black belts...

FWIW, in Morihei Ueshiba's generation hakama were, for many people, not a symbol of bushi virtue and tradition, but what you wore when you walked out of the house (clothes, in other words).

Best,

Chris

Don Cunningham
3rd November 2001, 13:21
I am not an aikidoka and don't play one on television, but there is a bit of relevant trivia which may be of some interest here.

The typical dogi worn in today's martial arts classes was first introduced for practice at the Kodokan. In some of the early writings by Dr. Jigoro Kano, judo's founder, the dogi was actually patterned on their impression of Western gym clothing. Around the turn of the previous century, gym clothing in the West consisted of long pants to about mid-calf and long sleeve t-shirts.

The Kodokan created the dogi pants to imitate the Western style, a sentiment quite popular during the Meiji era. So the dogi is not some sort of traditional Japanese dojo clothing, but actually an imitation of Western style. Therefore, it's not surprising that Morihei Ueshiba insisted that all wear hakama. Hakama were the standard Japanese style clothing of the time for men. Their other options for everyday wear were kimono or Western clothing.

Kolschey
3rd November 2001, 14:48
Don,

What do we know about the traditional training clothing for the pre-gendai traditions of martial arts? What I have seen of some modern practitioners of older styles is the use of the Uwagi top and Hakama. Is this a more modern interpretation of an older way of dressing, or were many of these older schools ones where the practitioners would wear their "everyday" clothing to train in? Was there any particular time in Japanese history at which the adoption of specific training uniforms became more common, or does this vary sufficiently from school to school to make this an overgeneralised assumption?

Many thanks!

MarkF
4th November 2001, 10:47
I am not Don, nor do I play him on TV, but the only standard I've seen is one of comfort, protection, and to some degree, tradition. I've noticed in books of the old school jujutsu, but in more modern times (around the turn of that other century) that clothing did seem to change just as Don stated. Shorts and perhaps a tee-shirt, then longer pant and tee-like shirts.

Even though Kano Jigoro-sensei introduced the modern dogi (pictures of him in the 1920s show "factory made judogi" and black belt, but on film and other photos, he almost always is shown in hakama and/or kimono). I simply think it makes good sense to at least wear the uwagi of the keikogi, as it wears much more slowly so its use, I believe, got around to just about any style of grappling, and then to the hard styles of striking arts. It had become more difficult to train without such a garment. No meaning to it, really (perhaps the natural color of cotton or white was preferred). I believe Ueshiba went through changes as does everyone and the hard stance on some things became less important, and those of training were of more.

I think I've found in this thread where the idea that only shodan and up wear the hakama while mudansh wear dogi pant.


"Why don't we just say that it's okay not to wear a hakama until you're shodan?" This idea was put forward as a temporary policy to avoid expense. The idea behind accepting the suggestion had nothing to do with the hakama being a symbol for dan ranking."

I don't see how this, even if a practice of a short time, couldn't become an unofficial rule in the dojo. Things have a way of spreading by word of mouth, and having all mudansha wearing something other than hakama could have spread very quickly.

As to underwear, was Ueshiba-sensei refering to the pant which goes with the uwagi or were they really wearing underwear (I've heard the dogi called worse than that)? There was a day, again around, say, 1905, that what passed for bottoms to the uwagi was little more than boxer shorts, thus I can understand that women would need to wear something, ahh, different?

The dojo I've visited and the one aikidojo where I trained, only the instructor wore hakama, but he said that he had become accustomed to them while growing up in Japan. All students, regardless of the belt they wore, were dressed in complete keikogi. Now if I say that was a shodokan school, will someone say "Well that's why no one was required to wear hakama!?"
:eek:

Mark

David T Anderson
4th November 2001, 13:41
Hi Alex -- In my Aikido dojo, everyone is encouraged to wear the hakama from day one, although it's not required by any means. Occasionally our sensei mentions the 'why are you coming to practice in your underwear' story, and only yesterday he mentioned that Iai [which we do in many of our classes] goes better in the hakama, and specifically recommended that people should consider acquiring one.

I can see a practical reasons why the hakama may not be worn in some dojos...primarily the expense. Having to buy an extra, rather expensive garment for practice would probably discourage some prospective students from attending, and the wearing of a hakama isn't crucial to learning Aikido, after all. I regard wearing the hakama as a sign of committment to the art [which is not to disparage those who don't wear it as being uncommitted].

As for the practice of using the 'privilege' of wearing the hakama to reward upper-level students, or to protect modesty...well, I can't criticise what happens in other dojos, or what seems right or fitting to some sensei, but I think it's clear that this is _not_ what the Founder intended to happen...

Nami
5th November 2001, 02:54
First I want to thank everyone who replied to this Thread. I guess I was reading a little bit more into the web-page article than I should have. I guess basicly was trying to find a way to express my respect for O-Sensei and the Art which he founded and others who paved the way for what it is today.


Originally posted by David T Anderson

I can see a practical reasons why the hakama may not be worn in some dojos...primarily the expense. Having to buy an extra, rather expensive garment for practice would probably discourage some prospective students from attending, and the wearing of a hakama isn't crucial to learning Aikido, after all. I regard wearing the hakama as a sign of committment to the art [which is not to disparage those who don't wear it as being uncommitted].



Hi David!

Yeah, tell me about the prices of Hakama these days! Lucky for me I got a new job. :-) The best price I found for Hakama (black) was at The Academy of Karate Martial Arts Suplies. Which sells thier suplies at wholesale prices. Their Hakama sells for $40.25!!!
And a size 6 Unbleached Single Weave for $28.95!!! With the savings, I can put it toward my monthly lesson fee of $60 a month. Yikes!

But I agree with you. It's not important what you wear. I guess how I should show my respect and commitment is to be the best I can possibly at Aikido. BANZAI!!!!

:karatekid

Aikieagle
6th November 2001, 17:26
i dont mean this to be rude, but who cares what o-sensei would "want". How can we postulate and assume what o-sensei would want when he's dead?
I think, just like the changing of aikido stylse through the ages, we must keep in mind the spirit of change. Each teacher has a "rule" about hakamas and it's usually something practical. Something that occurs in their circumstances that requires them to make certain rules. In our organization, hakama is reserved for black belts. why? so that the teacher can distinguish between experience and non-experienced aikidokas. Otherwise, he could call someone up and not know his ability if everyone wore hakamas. If only black belts wore hakamas it is easier to SEE who can fall good, and who is still learning to fall.
But i do see how some yudansha take advantage of this and seperate themselves from lower ranking people. But even black belts should remember the difference between a regular black belt and an instructor black belt, there is a HUGE difference. This is the loop in this system of non wearing hakamas, but that is not to say that everyone wearing a hakama does not have a loop. It definately does have a loop. You cant tell who to call up for a good demonstration! So it is really no better than the other system. We had a person come into our dojo with a hakama, so sensei assumed he was a black belt. Once i began to throw him i realized he knew very little about rolling and only took aikido for two months at another dojo before coming into ours. We use the hakama as a "goal" along with a black belt, if the students want a hakama and a black belt, they must prove themselves first. Then once they recieve it, then we tell them, "this is just the beginning, dont let it get to your head or ill remind you not to." hehe. I think a hakama at first is a little empowering, but after a while you get use to it, and you forget about it. But i do think without a hakama it is easier to learn and see foot movement in the beginners to make sure they are stepping at the right place and at the right angle, it is a little hard to see with a hakama.
does anyone know how yoshinkan does it? I think, from what ive seen in the videos, that only the INSTRUCTORS wear hakama, not even regular black belts wear them, only teachers. Im not sure though, but ive seen his video's with black belt uke's wearing no hakama.
But im sure there is a reason in organizations for not wearing hakama's, you just have to ask. dont assume if you dont know;) peace.

Cesar

Don Cunningham
6th November 2001, 18:48
What do we know about the traditional training clothing for the pre-gendai traditions of martial arts? What I have seen of some modern practitioners of older styles is the use of the Uwagi top and Hakama.
This is to reply specifically to Kolschey's questions. First, I am not 100 percent sure based on my own limited research, but it seems that many kendo/kenjutsu schools did use some sort of uwagi and hakama combination. As Mark indicated, some of the photos from other jujutsu styles show practitioners wearing something like a keikogi jacket with shorts underneath. Mark is correct that Kano sensei wore only formal kimono and hakama in films and photographs of training, but he must have worn a judogi during regular practice because his original jacket is preserved in the Kodokan's museum today.

Other jujutsu styles would appear to have worn whatever were considered street clothes at the time. It's important to realize, though, that hakama and kimono were not the only street clothes during this period. Commoners most often wore tight-fitting pants and short overcoats, with and without kimono, for example. I believe many iaido and other kenjutsu styles may have typically worn hakama over kimono. Due to the length of kimono, the use of wearing pants underneath the hakama was probably not practical and certainly not necessary. The shorter length of judogi or keikogi jackets in comparison make the need for undergarments with hakama more of an issue to be considered.

Ron Tisdale
6th November 2001, 19:46
The typical practise in the Yoshinkan from what I've seen is for the instructor in a class, or the senior person/s in a demo to wear hakama, but not the participants, no matter what rank. I've seen people from other styles/dojo asked to remove their hakama for training, because they didn't know that. Embarasing perhaps, but no real harm done. When in Rome...

Ron Tisdale

Jeff Hamacher
6th November 2001, 23:44
i have to agree with Cesar about the technical side of wearing a hakama, especially as a beginner. when i began aikido training, i had virtually no martial arts experience and found even the most basic footwork quite confusing. not wearing a hakama made it easier for me to concentrate on learning and i'm sure it makes things easier for a teacher who's trying to correct a beginner's mistakes.

i don't know how many of you who wore hakama from the get-go felt comfortable with it right away, but it's my opinion that beginners need some time to get the lower body moving properly before they slap on the extra fabric. when i first started wearing hakama (even after i was given shodan) i can't remember all the times i stepped on it, got it tangled around my feet or legs, etc.

having said that, i think that any aikido student who can, either by virtue of their own ability or in accordance with their dojo's rules, should wear a hakama. the hakama keeps you on the straight and narrow with lower body movement, and i've always felt that it reinforces that pleasant sense of "dropping your center". i can't imagine training in aikido without one.

as for the Yoshinkai hakama question, a friend of mine who has trained with Kimeda-sensei in toronto told me, in that dojo at least, yudansha are allowed but not obligated to wear hakama. having gone to watch the class twice, i noticed a mix of "wearing" and "not-wearing" black belts. i don't know what this says about Yoshinkai practice elsewhere.

Alternity
7th November 2001, 20:57
I have a divided opinion about the wearing of hakama for all. First, I see the right to wear the hakama from the black belt on as a sign that you have attained the seven virtues mentionned. In that spirit I would expect only the best aikibudoka to have the right to wear it, I would also expect that someone would be refused his black belt if he blatantly didn't fit one of those virtues.

But then there is the technical aspect of practicing with an hakama. You don't move the same way with an hakama than you do with simple gi pants. In that optic I like the idea that the practicionners of Aikibudo follow, which is to allow the wearing of a white hakama from the green belt on. This way, one can train with an hakama as well as being reminded of the 7 virtues he should strive to achieve.

Don Cunningham
7th November 2001, 21:26
What about the two virtues of long trousers? Maybe we shouldn't be allowed to wear long trousers until we have acquired these two virtues. :D

Kolschey
7th November 2001, 22:17
Thank you for your answers to my questions. The descriptions that you give of the clothing of commoners seems very much reminiscent of some of the prints of street scenes by the woodblock artist Ando Hiroshige.