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Paburo
9th December 2001, 19:09
Hi Everyone it's strange i might have ask this before but i'll ask again.
Has anyone seen or know about such a gendai art of todo or toho (i think)
i've seen a video for sale on this on www.tozando.com
if anyone knows about it please let it be know to all our friends here on e-budo.

Thanks! keep on the good tradition!:)

Pablo Rosado

Charles Mahan
10th December 2001, 20:02
It wouldn't be the Toho iai set from the Zen Nippon Iaido Renmei would it? Sounds too easy.

Paburo
10th December 2001, 20:24
check out tozando sword video section.
http://www.tozando.com/eng/iaido/video2.html

Charles Mahan
10th December 2001, 20:52
Ahh well. I knew it was too easy.

Paburo
10th December 2001, 22:29
At least you can say what it's all about.
I mean it must be "easy to explain" right?

hyaku
11th December 2001, 00:40
The video you mention is fairly old and is not a new gendai budo.

It was made by Hayashi Kunishiro, the head of Wakakoma Pro. A Tateshi organization that oversees the fight scenes for about every major Japanese TV or movie period drama.This is why the video might seem to be somewhat dramatic.

Todo translates as the "Way of the sword" He is also Vice Chairman of the Zen Nippon Todo Renmei.

It is a general introduction into standard sword basics and includes some of the fundamental sword cuts.

Hyakutake Colin

Paburo
11th December 2001, 01:21
YOU SEE THAT'S A GOOD AND SIMPLE ANSWER WICH ALL HERE COULD UNDERSTAND I APPRETIATE THE INFO.

GOOD LUCK, AND THANKS HAYAKU!!

ghp
11th December 2001, 02:05
And for you Shinkendo practitioners ...

Hayashi Kunishiro sensei was Obata Toshishiro sensei's mentor -- probably having more influence on him in swordsmanship than Nakamura sensei. Hayashi sensei also assisted Mr. Obata's move to the US.

If you are familiar with the Shodan, Nidan, and Sandan kata shown in Naked Blade, "Wakakoma Pro" is from where those particular kata originate.

--Guy

FastEd
11th December 2001, 09:56
Originally posted by hyaku
The video you mention is fairly old and is not a new gendai budo.

It was made by Hayashi Kunishiro, the head of Wakakoma Pro. A Tateshi organization that oversees the fight scenes for about every major Japanese TV or movie period drama.This is why the video might seem to be somewhat dramatic.

Hyakutake Colin

Hmm, interesting, so is the Tateshi organization analogous to these fight chorography organizations that we see over here? With emphasis on sowrdsmanship for a dramtic effect?

hyaku
11th December 2001, 14:31
Originally posted by FastEd


Hmm, interesting, so is the Tateshi organization analogous to these fight chorography organizations that we see over here? With emphasis on sowrdsmanship for a dramtic effect?

What they mostly try to teach is sword basics and many other martial arts to actors. A rather impossible situation trying to make an amateur look authentic over a short time period. The members also do small roles themselves.

I watched a "very" old video a few weeks ago which included Nakamura Sensei. At the very beginning of the video it was a younger Hayashi Sensei that did a bit part simulating Seppuku. Then the video went on to show various martial arts and swordsmanship. I found it to be quite ironic knowing the man that did the bit part is an acomplished swordsman in his own right and far better than some of the other people shown on the video.

Hyakutake Colin

http://www.bunbun.ne.jp/~sword

Charles Mahan
11th December 2001, 16:41
At least you can say what it's all about.
I mean it must be "easy to explain" right?

What I meant was that it sounded to easy for the answer to your question about the style on the video to be the Toho set from ZNIR. I was not referring to the difficult of the techniques in the Todo video in any way.

Sorry for the confusion. Seemed clear to me.

Nathan Scott
11th December 2001, 21:14
Hi,

"Toho" means sword methods - "Todo" means way of the sword (different kanji than "kendo"). These terms, especially toho, seem to be used more commonly for descriptions as opposed to art-names.

The video Hyakutake-san refers to is the documentary "Budo". Great stuff.

The Wakakoma Pro study more than swordsmanship. They fight choreograph, perform stunts, act and train actors in most aspects of traditional martial culture. Obata sensei introduced aikido to their group, and they all trained in a variety of weapons, wearing/fighting in armor, and horsemanship under many guest instructors. Even ryukyu kobudo was taught by the renowned Inoue Motokatsu.

I think they did tend to specialize in swordsmanship and stunts though. The NHK, as many know, is very thorough in their research of historical matters, and has a very large research library to draw from.


If you are familiar with the Shodan, Nidan, and Sandan kata shown in Naked Blade, "Wakakoma Pro" is from where those particular kata originate.

Actually, the "Shodan" and "Nidan" are shown in "Crimson Steel", not "Naked Blade" (both long out of print).

Although I have a copy of Hayashi sensei's video, I'm not entirely convinced that Hayashi sensei created the kata by himself. Obata sensei met Nakamura sensei some years before both Hayashi and Obata began to study under Nakamura - somewhat of a coincidence, if I understand correctly. Since Hayashi was Obata's boss, he was always concidered the senior wherever they trained, even though Obata s. was younger and very athletic, and tended to study much more seriously.

So while I don't have the full story right now, I also don't think that Obata sensei simply borrowed Wakakoma kata. I suspect the kata were developed/modified as a collaboration at some point.

Interesting to watch them both anyway. I think the Wakakoma Pro was also involved with the James Bond filmed in Japan (You Only Live Twice?)

Regards,

hyaku
12th December 2001, 00:52
I may have written something that is misleading and should corrrect it. Hayashi Sensei's company is Wakakoma Pro. I said the video was old but not "that" old. Its a mixure of Todo Renmei kata and members of the Renmei who are also tateshi.

He is the main figure in the Todo Renmei and the kata are used by members of this association not Wakakoma Pro.

Hyakutake Colin

Zen Nippon Todo Renmei

ghp
12th December 2001, 01:26
Nathan,

Thanks for the memory jogg! Sheesh ... I should (of all people) have remembered it was Crimson Steel and not Naked Blade.

I don't know when Mr. Obata met Hayashi sensei, but I do know he met Nakamura sensei while still enrolled at the Yoshinkan.

(By the way, that is Obata sensei's head being cut off at the end of "Budo") Nathan knows this already. :)

I don't know who developed the Wakakoma Kata -- I learned it from Obata sensei, who said it was the "Wakakoma" kata. And I've recently seen a clip about Wakakoma Pro on Fuji Television (SF Bay Area) depicting some members in Hayashi sensei's dojo (his daylight basement) performing the Wakakoma shodan kata. (....where did I see that????....)

Wakakoma may have performed for "You Only Live Twice" but I'm not sure -- did they exist in 1969/1970? I first saw that movie in Bangkok in 69/70. I did hear that there was a great stink about shuriken sticking into the castle wall and someone caught hell for that.

Cheers,
Guy