the next thirty to forty years

[autrelle]

i have a few ideas that i would like to hear opinions on.

i am wonder if people think that Aikido will change drastically within the next 30-40 years

i say this in regard to the fact that most of O'Sensei's first generation deshi will have passed on by then.

does anyone think that this will have any major ramifications?

yours truly

[Kolschey]

Interesting topic.
I would say that Aikido as a whole may not change radically, but it is likely that you will see more splintering, perhaps even into styles that are increasingly eclectic. There will continue to be a core of practitioners who hold to specific approaches, applications, and traditions, but I should not be surprised to see a newer generation that is inclined to create hybrid styles with an attempt to integrate cross training elements such as, say, striking arts, groundwork or Philippine style knifework. Some of these will die right off of the vine from lack of internal cohesion, others will mutate to the point that they are no longer effectively Aikido but rather hybrids that provide new matrices for various defensive concepts. This certainly seems to be the case for most other arts.
Undoubtedly, the politics of these various schools, approaches, and organizations will become increasingly Byzantine. Beyond that, I really can't provide much projection.

[autrelle]

agreed. i believe that there will be more splintering, more expressive, stylistic approaches, amd eclectic aikido as well.

does anyone think that the quality of aikido will lessen when the first generation of instructors pass?

does anyone feel that aikido is better now than it was when O'Sensei was alive

i am personally worried that i may never have the chance to meet people like Saito Sensei, or Saotome Sensei, for example. maybe those of you who get to train first hand under our advancing shihan can give some insight as to what might be done to preserve the knowledge that they have spent their lives attaining.

yours truly

[INFINOO]

First of all IMO Aikido never was a "pure art" from the beginning, so why start now?. So words like splinter groups and hybred styles are an indication to me, that some know there own art , not. Im a beleiver in cross training in kali, wrestling, jujutsu, Tai-chi and western knife arts as well as others. From my experience its a win, win situation. You win by learning new concepts and you win by learning whats out there.
One thing I learned from my father is that you must constantly try to improve the way you do things. Not just do it because my teacher did. So what will Aikido look like in fourty years?. Who knows?, but one things is for sure it will change.

Gregory Rogalsky
Rogalsky Combatives International

[Johan Tibell]

Originally posted by autrelle

i am personally worried that i may never have the chance to meet people like Saito Sensei, or Saotome Sensei, for example. maybe those of you who get to train first hand under our advancing shihan can give some insight as to what might be done to preserve the knowledge that they have spent their lives attaining.


I'm also worried about that perhaps I won't be able to train under some of O-Sensei's direct students. I most likely go to Iwama in June and train under Saito Sensei but sadly his health stops him from teaching as much as he probably want to. Instead Hitohiro (sp?) Sensei is in charge of most of the training (and high ranking sempais I belive).

I wrote a post where I tried (not so sucessfully) to explain my worries about Aikido in the future on Aikido Journal (link (http://www.aikidojournal.com/)). I tried to generate a discussion how we as students should prevent that knowledge would become lost between generations.

Regards,

Johan Tibell

[Jerry Johnson]

Dear Aikidokas,

I hope that I am not interrupting this sincere and thought provoking thread with my question.

From what I have been reading the concern many have as universal. Therefore, I ask, what will be the quality of Aikido in "x" number years? That is with all the proposed future interpretations, splintering, and new generation leaders what will become of quality in tradition, technique, and philosophy. Also, did the founder foresee such change and inspire it? Or did he disapprove of it. That is would he have disapproved of all the splintering etc. now and in the future?

Thank you for taking the time to entertain this question.

[Jerry Johnson]

I would like to add to the above that I have argued in favor of competition in Aikido. But my inquire is not related to that. Such a change as competition is outside the greater scope of my question of quality being lost or improved through change and if such change is inevitable or acceptable.


Why I feel this is universal is because it is an issue faced by other martial arts and by how all martial arts will be practiced and perceived in the future as societies change as well. Aikido it's self could be a result of just such a thing as concerning quality and change. Aikido is a splinter of one art and or an eclectic art and it maintained quality and change. Why can't that happen with new splinter or new eclectic groups of Aikido?

Last thought is a future splinter group surpassing what some believe as core ideal Aikido that is based on founding core principles both technically and philosophical? Could this happen? Why barriers would be faced. I say this in terms of how I see Aikido being birthed.

[Jack B]

It seems to me that Aikido is not so much a system as it is an approach to matrial arts. O-sensei did not establish a set curriculum, probably on purpose, but this has allowed each of his students to develop differently. In 30-40 years, all the first gen and most of the 2nd gen wil be gone. There will arise new geniuses who redefine Aikido, probably with new names, some being more pure to the original and some not. Many styles of Aikido will stray into their own avenues, some better systems than the original, most probbaly not. Actually not much different than today. The bulk of Aikikai "mainstream" will continue to pursue the legacy.

This is similar to the history of Buddhism. First a small group learn directly, slowly the descendants lose the fire of the original, but develop new ways of sparking it. We cannot duplicate O-sensei's life, therefore none of us will arrive at the peak throught his path. We seek what he sought. Many believe that it is not possible to attain his level. That is self-limiting; like Buddhists, if we cannot attain it then we are not really on the path. However, like Buddhists, there is the large devotional path and the private paths that lead to enlightenment. Many people need devotion and it is eminently valuable to their lives, but this does not lead them to nirvana.

Some credence must be given to the "blind men and elephant" situation. It is likely that none even of Ueshiba's direct students received all that Ueshiba learned, knew or taught. There is not really any attempt to re-synthesize everything either. Even the various Daito-ryu groups do not include O-sensei's personal insights and transformations, although they are probably a good source for the range of "aiki" on which O-sensei based his art. There is much religious dissension about which angels dance best, so practitioners often do not acknowledge the transmission, genius and breakthroughs of others. This is not science; everyone will not agree that the earth is round or that Bose-Einstein Condensate allows you to slow light to 38 mph. It is not testable or duplicatable. But it will keep us busy!

Jack Bieler
Denton, Texas

[P Goldsbury]

A few thoughts on a sunny Sunday morning here in Hiroshima...

1. I think the tendency for aikido to lose its Japanese/historical roots will continue. I have done a fair amount of research on the history of Japan during the transition (a real revolution) from Tokugawa to Meiji and on the early life of Morihei Ueshiba in its Meiji/Taisho setting. The Founder really was a man of his time and though the art he created (extending over a period from, say, around 1920 to 1942) was revolutionary, it was still 100% a Japanese budo, with much of the cultural baggage of the 1930s. In the aftermath of the Pacific War, there was a substantial shift. Aikido became open to anybody and it became open to non-Japanese, i.e., to people who did not or could not place aikido in its Japanese cultural context. And, very important, there were no post-war uchi-deshi.

2. In place of the Founder's 'organised chaos' of Omoto-kyo, Shinto/Shingon Buddhism, and popular folktales, people like Kisshomaru Ueshiba and Koichi Tohei imposed some sort of order and presented what they saw as the core: techniques and 'spiritual' training, the latter firmly divorced from any hint of 'religion': an art that Everyman and Everywoman can practise with benefit. It is in this form that aikido has become popular. (NOTE. I am NOT saying that the art was somewhow diluted in quality.)

3. There are at least two consequences of this historical development. They were there right from the beginning but perhaps were not seen for what they are. I have distinguished them, but they cannot really be separated.
(a) Insofar as aikido is a physical activity, it obeys the laws of physics. Thus, to say that the Founder's techniques will never be surpassed seems like saying that no one will ever better the 4-minute mile. What on earth is there to stop a future martial arts genius from coming along and utilising skills learned from cross-training, skills very much like the Founder himself acquired in his own time and in his own way?
(b) The second consequence is aikido is a political activity. Right from the Kobukan years, it followed the pattern of organisations which 'fragment' with the arrival of the second and future generations. When I say 'fragment' I mean that the disciples each took from the Founder a portion of his 'charisma', to use Weber's phrase, but not the whole. Thus, when an aikido instructor states that "I was an uchi-deshi of O Sensei", it means that the person had a ring-side seat, so to speak, and was given the chance to absorb as much of the Founder's 'teaching' as he could. It does NOT mean that his techniques are any better than those of someone who was not an 'uchi-deshi'. And so on through the generations. Thus aikido is no different from other political activities where the problem is to discern charisma (= quality) within, or outside of, a structure.

4. When I state that aikido will tend to lose its historical/Japanese roots, I should also state that I do not intend any value judgement here, though people will, of course, want to make value judgements. I am sure that the Japanese will want to hang on to their position at the top of the structure they have created and will use the iemoto system and the dan system in order to do so. On the other hand, aikido will come under much closer scrutiny from people who are not awed by the Japanese cultural baggage it presently has. I would think that this scrutiny is more likely to come from outside Japan, as more and more non-Japanese become really good at aikido and progress up through the dan system (of course, the two are not the same). Thus the type, for want of a better word, of aikido one wants to practise is likely to become more a matter of individual choice.

Perhaps I have a much longer-term view than one appropriate for the next 30 - 40 years. And I am not at all pessimistic, by the way.

Best regards to all
_____________
P A Goldsbury,
Graduate School of Social Sciences,
Hiroshima University

[Gil Gillespie]

"There were no post-war uchi-deshi."

This one flies in the face of all I've learned over the years. I've developed a deep and serious respect for Mr Goldsbury, so this does not challenge his statement. I'm genuinely interested in learning more about this. Would anyone care to clarify or add to it?

[P Goldsbury]

Originally posted by Gil Gillespie
"There were no post-war uchi-deshi."

This one flies in the face of all I've learned over the years. I've developed a deep and serious respect for Mr Goldsbury, so this does not challenge his statement. I'm genuinely interested in learning more about this. Would anyone care to clarify or add to it?

Hello Gil,

I was expecting someone to pick this up, since it was a rather blunt statement. Here is the background.

A few years after I started aikido, one of my teachers (who entered the Aikikai Hombu in the late 50s) declared that he had been "an uchideshi of O Sensei". When I came to Hiroshima, my teacher poured scorn on this notion. He bluntly stated (in his best Hiroshima-ben), that many "uchideshi of O Sensei" at best carried his bags when he went to teach somewhere and were no more "uchideshi" in the full sense of the word than "you or I".

So, at dinner in connection with an IAF meeting, I found myself sitting next to Kisshomaru Doshu and I asked him just who were O Sensei's uchideshi. His answer was simple: the only uchi-deshi of the Founder were people like Rinjiro Shirata who were in the Kobukan before the war. Kisshomaru Doshu also stated that he himself had no uchideshi. I was somewhat stunned by the answer, but accepted it as coming right from the top, so to speak.

More recently, I had occasion to discuss the matter with Arikawa Sensei. He agreed that there were no postwar uchideshi, but thought that the matter was partly one of terminology. He suggested that the one disciple of O Sensei and Kisshomaru Doshu who was was an uchideshi in all but name (in the strict, prewar designation) was Nobuyoshi Tamura. Those who came after Tamura Sensei were clearly special students of Kisshomaru Doshu, but they were closer to the presentday special students of Moriteru Doshu than to O Sensei's prewar students like Shirata Sensei.

What is a westerner to make of all this? Clearly names and status matter very much here in Japan. I have been in conversation with some presentday Hombu instructors and, when certain eminent senseis came up in the conversation, there is a declaration, almost of triumph, "but X was not an uchideshi". "He was a kayoi-deshi" (M Saito), or "he ran the office" (M Fujita). The title, or lack of it, says nothing about the closeness of the relationship these teachers had with the Founder. If you think of the years Morihiro Saito Sensei spent in Iwama, training on the days his job with JNR allowed, I do not think it matters very much whether he was strictly an uchideshi or not.

Nevertheless, Kisshomaru Doshu's comment to me is still true.

I hope this clarifies the matter. Feel free to ask or comment if it does not.

Best regards,
_____________
P A Goldsbury,
Graduate School of Social Sciences,
Hiroshima University

[Jerry Johnson]

Mr. Goldsbury,

Thank for your posts. Your post's have provided a wealth of information concerning my inquire.

I found your first post in this thread to be very interesting. For example, in points 3.a. and 4. They demonstrated very complex issues faced by Aikido and possibly other Japanese martial arts as well.

How these issues are resolved or formulated in Aikido's future will be very interesting to see. Because Aikido has such world wide popularity, any change in Aikido may be a possible catalyst for change for other Japanese martial arts. That is, it may be possible that a non-Japanese with tremendous skill and talent will challenge the Japanese structure and lead Aikido in the future. Which may cause other arts to follow. Of course this may be a great challenge to do, and be something in the far future. Clearly, not something of the near future, as you pointed out
the Japanese will want to
hang on to their position at the top of the structure they have created and will
use the iemoto system and the dan system in order to do so. Also, is it possible that non-Japanese maybe would not want or be ready for a non-Japanese to take the helm. Thus, supporting the Japanese to hang on to their structure?

Now all this is only my own speculation, so please feel free to provide any criticisms of my speculation.

[kokumo]

Originally posted by P Goldsbury


Kisshomaru Doshu also stated that he himself had no uchideshi. I was somewhat stunned by the answer, but accepted it as coming right from the top, so to speak.

More recently, I had occasion to discuss the matter with Arikawa Sensei. He agreed that there were no postwar uchideshi, but thought that the matter was partly one of terminology.
_____________
P A Goldsbury,
Graduate School of Social Sciences,
Hiroshima University

Professor Goldsbury,

Obviously your sources are impeccable -- which simply leaves me wondering just what "unit of terminology" we should use for post-war live-in students at Aikikai Hombu Dojo.

Something tells me "sengo-deshi" isn't likely to fly.....

Best regards,

Fred Little

[hix]

Hello,
I`m a new member. Yoroshiku Onegaishimasu.

I guess the best way is to jump in.

The comments by Professor Goldsbury are very interesting to me. I moved to Japan, specifically Ibaraki, to study Aikido. I had no idea about the different associations. I just found the highest level teacher in my area and joined.

As for the future of Aikido, I see it as stated above, with more organizations, splitting, etc.

In one sense, I believe O`sensei achieved his goal. He brought many people together all over the world in search for harmony with their fellow man.
All I truly know is that every moment of practice or contact I have experienced in relation to Aikido, has helped me grow as a human.
As long as Aikido brings this feeling to it`s students, I believe it`s purpose is fulfilled.

There will always be the question of purity. This is something that is already an issue. It will grow as time passes. I guess it`s up to us.

Thanks for reading,

Jon
:)

[Chad Bruttomesso]

Jon,

First off, welcome to E-Budo. One of our hard and fast rules here at E-Budo is that we sign all of our posts with our full names. You can either do this manually or you can setup a signature. Thank you in advance for your help with this.

Speaking of Ibaraki, I will be in Tomobe for a few days at the end of the year. I have always thought that Saito Sensei (one station from Tomobe) has some very interesting points to make in regards to the historical aspects of Aikido. Well worth the time to check out his dojo if you can.


Chad Bruttomesso

[P Goldsbury]

Jon,

From your post, I suppose you are training in a dojo affiliated to the Iwama Dojo of Morihiro Saito Shihan. Right?


Originally posted by Jerry Johnson
Mr. Goldsbury,

Thank for your posts. Your post's have provided a wealth of information concerning my inquire.

I found your first post in this thread to be very interesting. For example, in points 3.a. and 4. They demonstrated very complex issues faced by Aikido and possibly other Japanese martial arts as well.

How these issues are resolved or formulated in Aikido's future will be very interesting to see. Because Aikido has such world wide popularity, any change in Aikido may be a possible catalyst for change for other Japanese martial arts. That is, it may be possible that a non-Japanese with tremendous skill and talent will challenge the Japanese structure and lead Aikido in the future. Which may cause other arts to follow. Of course this may be a great challenge to do, and be something in the far future. Clearly, not something of the near future, as you pointed out Also, is it possible that non-Japanese maybe would not want or be ready for a non-Japanese to take the helm. Thus, supporting the Japanese to hang on to their structure?

Now all this is only my own speculation, so please feel free to provide any criticisms of my speculation.

Mr Johnson,

Of course, I can see your point about non-Japanese being unwilling to take over the leadership of aikido. Despite the large populations of aikidoists in the USA and France, Japan is still something of a powerhouse and its conceptual domination of the art is also an advantage.

My experience has been confined to the Aikikai in the USA and UK. I am not aware in the US of any mass revolts against the present Japanese shihans, such as have occurred in Europe (Germany, Sweden, France, UK). In Europe, the feeling is that Japanese teachers, especially the younger ones from the Hombu, are less of a big deal than they were. Thus, you have a situation such as that in Sweden, where the links with the Hombu are close, but the teaching and organisation is firmly in the hands of Swedish aikidoka. The same cannot be said of the US, as far as I know.

However, in the future, this tendency can only increase, since the age of deshi, let alone uchi-deshi, is passing and the present members of the Aikikai Hombu are 'bu-iin' (members of whichever 'bu', section, they are attached to). The term 'deshi' seems to me to have lost its special meaning and now appears to have a greatly extended meaning, such that everybody is a deshi of Doshu (as a member of the Aikikai Hombu recently told me).

Thus I can envisage a situation where there are no longer any expatriate Japanese teachers of aikido at all, or very few -- and these would have no privileged position. There are organisations in a country where virtually all the teachers are 'natives', so to speak. Including Japan, which will inevitably have less of a monopoly on high rank. It would be posible to think of Japan as the 'mother' country, and as a 'centre of excellence', but I see no sign of the latter happening at the moment.

And then there is the question of to what extent aikido is essentially Japanese. People, especially high-ranking Japaese, are fond of telling me that if aikido changes its essence, it will no longer be aikido. But the next question (what IS the essence of aikido?) is less readily answered. I have suggested elsewhere that there are two crucial factors: technical competence and the teacher/student relationship. To what extent is it crucial to the survival of what is supposed to be a 'universal' art that these two factors be experienced in the cultural mind set of 19th - 20th century Japanese?

In this respect, it is interesting to compare Morihei Ueshiba and his successors with someone like Johannes Liechtenauer, the 14th century German sword master. I say 'sword master', but to judge from the manuals written by later 'deshi' such as Hans Talhoffer, Liechtenauer taught a comprehensive martial arts system, similar perhaps to that created by Morihei Ueshiba during his time in Iwama from 1942 onwards. Liechtenauer has been compared with the founder of Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto-ryu, with whom he was almost contemporaneous. However, my point is that, despite the fact that Liechtenauer went to great lengths to keep the secrets of his art from the uninitiated, for the next 250 years his disciples wrote teaching manuals which revealed all the secrets. Liechtenauer's teachings spread throughout Europe, but the special 'German' quality of his art -- if it ever existed -- was lost. In addition, apart from the deliberate obscurity of his verses, in his list of 17 techniques, Liechtenauer does not seem to employ concepts like the German counterpart of ki or kokyu-ryoku.

Actually, there are many interesting points of comparison which are germane to this thread, but they really deserve a whole article. I would also more than interested to hear the views of anyone who knows more about this than I do.

Best regards,
_____________
P A Goldsbury,
Graduate School of Social Sciences,
Hiroshima University

[hix]

Professor Goldsbury,

Yes, my teacher is Saito Sensei`s Kohai. My Japanese isn`t the best, but from my understanding, my teacher is a 7th dan trained in Iwama dojo by Morihei Ueshiba. His name is Fukuda. I have never asked his first name. It actually has not come up. He is in his mid to late 70`s. A really friendly guy. My fellow Japanese students claim that he is quite famous, but I had never heard of him prior to coming to Ibaraki. At the Tokyo Embutaikai, many people seem to show their respects to him.
I would really like to know his lineage. If anyone has ever heard of him, please let me know.
It has been a wonderful experience training with him. After I recieve my Shodan from him, I plan to apply for a period of Uchideshi in Iwama, but I will continue to train directly under Fukuda Sensei for the next 10 to 15 years.

If you have any advice about living and training in Japan, it would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry to get off topic.

Jonathan Hicks

[Johan Tibell]

Originally posted by hix
If you have any advice about living and training in Japan, it would be greatly appreciated.


I will also spend some time in Iwama as uchi deshi during the summer and I'll be very happy for every piece of advice I could get.

Regards,

Johan Tibell

[P Goldsbury]

Originally posted by hix
Professor Goldsbury,

Yes, my teacher is Saito Sensei`s Kohai. My Japanese isn`t the best, but from my understanding, my teacher is a 7th dan trained in Iwama dojo by Morihei Ueshiba. His name is Fukuda. I have never asked his first name. It actually has not come up. He is in his mid to late 70`s. A really friendly guy. My fellow Japanese students claim that he is quite famous, but I had never heard of him prior to coming to Ibaraki. At the Tokyo Embutaikai, many people seem to show their respects to him.
I would really like to know his lineage. If anyone has ever heard of him, please let me know.
It has been a wonderful experience training with him. After I recieve my Shodan from him, I plan to apply for a period of Uchideshi in Iwama, but I will continue to train directly under Fukuda Sensei for the next 10 to 15 years.

If you have any advice about living and training in Japan, it would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry to get off topic.

Jonathan Hicks

Hello Jonathan,

Well, your post is only slightly off-topic. From the information given, you appear to be on something like the JET programme, or are a research student/teacher at Tsukuba University and have the chance to do aikido. Am I right? I have no idea whether the Japanese government will be continuing the JET programme in 40 years time, but I wonder whether there will be so many people who want to come to Japan to practise aikido. The present Doshu will be 90 years old and there will be no one around who trained directly under the Founder. So, given that there will be a whole crop of non-Japanese 7th dan and 8th dan aikido experts living abroad, what would be the point of coming to the source? Apart, perhaps, from learning aikido as one learns nohgaku and the tea ceremony: to experience the pulse of traditional Japanese culture as it is expressed in aikido. So, you are probably a member of a dying breed.

As for Mr Fukuda, his first name is Tamotsu. If he is in his mid to late seventies, he would be as old as, or older than, Saito Morihiro Shihan himself. He is clearly eminent, since he is third in the Ibaragi 'pecking order' after Messrs Saito and Isoyama. I have never met him and he does not appear to demonstrate at the May All-Japan jamboree and he did not appear at the recent Akita World Games, which is unusual.

What advice should I give you? Off-hand, I can think of two items.

1. The Japanese equivalent of 'When in Rome, do as the Romans do' is 'Go-ni- ireba, go-ni-shitagae'. Take it heart, especially on the tatami.

2. The above being said, keep your eyes and ears open and do not be afraid to ask. As a foreigner, you will never be accepted on equal terms, but there are things that foreigners can do that seem to be closed to the Japanese. One is asking 'silly' questions. (But to do this, you need to speak Japanese. Questions in English through an interpreter are no good.)

So, you need to learn the three skills of listening, speaking, and reading Japanese. And writing, especially with the brush, if you have the time. The biggest mistake I made in coming here was not doing an intensive course in Japanese beforehand. The two most important skills are advanced listening and reading (such that you can deal with newspaper articles and, e.g., Aiki News in Japanese). If you acquire these skills, then you can help to address the cooncerns of Johan Tibell in his earlier post, namely, that the direct disciples are becoming fewer and fewer and we need to conserve the insights of those who remain. We have the same problem here in Hiroshima, with people who experienced the atomic bombing.

Thus, whenever I meet older disciples like Saito Sensei I ask them questions if I get the chance. So, you, too, really should ask your sensei how he trained with O Sensei in Iwama, for this is a serious historical question. You know, straightforward questions: what were the techiques, what were the names of the techniques, how did O Sensei teach weapons, did he take part in midnight training sessions, did O Sensei really teach, or did he just 'show'? Were O Sensei's explanations in the Iwama period related to the Kojiki, etc, etc etc.

Best wishes for good training in 2002,

Peter Goldsbury,
_____________
P A Goldsbury,
Graduate School of Social Sciences,
Hiroshima University

[Johan Tibell]

Originally posted by P Goldsbury
The biggest mistake I made in coming here was not doing an intensive course in Japanese beforehand. The two most important skills are advanced listening and reading (such that you can deal with newspaper articles and, e.g., Aiki News in Japanese). If you acquire these skills, then you can help to address the cooncerns of Johan Tibell in his earlier post, namely, that the direct disciples are becoming fewer and fewer and we need to conserve the insights of those who remain.

Best wishes for good training in 2002,

Peter Goldsbury,
I think that's a very good advice, in fact I'll be starting a beginners course (of course this will only be start...) in Japanese in Januari and will be trying to study as much as I possible can before I leave for Iwama in June. I know that a few months aren't going to help me much but hopefully it will help me some.

Now a days I always carry with me a little small black book (which looks really cool if you ask me, looks really worn out ;) ) in which I take notes of important details I'm given on the different techniques. Even though one can't learn from a book those notes are great help when I look back and try to reconstruct a technique I was taught by and sensei I probably won't meet very often (read 'in years if ever').


Best Regards,

Johan Tibell

[hix]

Thank you Prof. Goldsbury,

Thanks a lot for the advice.

1. I am not a JET. I fortunately have obtained a permanent position with my city`s Board of Education. My contract has no limit, so I should be able to remain in Japan for a long time.

2. I agree about the Japanese language. I studied in college, but it wasn`t enough. My teacher speaks Ibaraki- ben, so I have to learn the dialect. So far, I`m doing alright. I should speak better considering I have been here 4 years though.

3.I really appriciate the information about my teacher. I will hopefully be able to ask him about his training with O`Sensei. My fellow students said he is too shy to be put in the spotlight. Sounds Japanese to me. But it seems he is invited to sit with the Doshu and others at the Tokyo Exhibition, but he refuses every year.
Hopefully in time I will be able to talk with him freely about such things.

It`s an interseting point you made about the "source". For me, I think living in Japanese society has helped me greatly to understand my Aikido. I know there are many high ranking teachers abroad, but I get a new demension by living here. Besides, I love the Onsen.

Thanks again,

Jonathan Hicks

[P Goldsbury]

Dear Jonathan,

I have just come across your latest post in this thread. I have one or two more thoughts.


Originally posted by hix
Thank you Prof. Goldsbury,

Thanks a lot for the advice.

1. I am not a JET. I fortunately have obtained a permanent position with my city`s Board of Education. My contract has no limit, so I should be able to remain in Japan for a long time.
PAG. A very good situation, quite similar to mine. I moved over from being a contract foreign lecturer to a permanent position. My official teaching hours are just ten per week, so I have plenty of time for my own research and training. Does your job allow you sufficient time for training?

2. I agree about the Japanese language. I studied in college, but it wasn`t enough. My teacher speaks Ibaraki- ben, so I have to learn the dialect. So far, I`m doing alright. I should speak better considering I have been here 4 years though.
PAG. When I first came here, I was explicitly told not to learn Japanese, since it would corrupt my linguistic 'purity' in the English language classroom. I don't know about Tsukuba, but in Hiroshima you cannot survive without some knowledge of Japanese. However, I did not begin to take the language seriously until I received tenure.

3.I really appriciate the information about my teacher. I will hopefully be able to ask him about his training with O`Sensei. My fellow students said he is too shy to be put in the spotlight. Sounds Japanese to me. But it seems he is invited to sit with the Doshu and others at the Tokyo Exhibition, but he refuses every year.
Hopefully in time I will be able to talk with him freely about such things.
PAG. I suppose it depends on your position in the dojo. I have been here a long time and am just one rank below my own teacher in Hiroshima (not that this means a great deal, though). He was recentlly hospitalised for a few weeks and I used to go and see him quite often, since the hospital was very close to where I was teaching. He talked a lot, about his own training with O Sensei in the Hombu and about the present state of aikido. My Japanese dojo colleagues do not really seem to ask him questions: they just wait for the wisdom to flow. You probably have a good chance to add to our knowledge of O Sensei during the Iwama years.

It`s an interseting point you made about the "source". For me, I think living in Japanese society has helped me greatly to understand my Aikido. I know there are many high ranking teachers abroad, but I get a new demension by living here. Besides, I love the Onsen.
PAG. Ah yes, the onsen. I have been here for well over 20 years now and have never regretted the decision I made to come and live here. That said, my feelings towards the Japanese are really ambivalent and I wonder how you yourself will change if you stay here this long. I have had the good fortune to train here with people who knew O Sensei very well, but something is being lost and I think this is irrevocable. It is not just that O Sensei's direct students are becoming fewer, but aikido's links wih the culture in which it was created are becoming weaker. James Bostwick, who regularly contributes to this and other forums under the name 'sanskara', said in one of his posts that aikido is 'counter-culture'. It might well have been this when it was created in the Ueshiba Juku and the Kobukan and in the US it might still be, but in presentday Japan it certainly is not, in my opinion. Actually, I think this point is very relevant to the subject of this thread.
Thanks again,

Jonathan Hicks

All good wishes for 2002.
____________
P A Goldsbury,
Graduate School of Social Sciences,
Hiroshima University

[Joseph Svinth]

IMO, the key to hearing the stories is getting to know Sensei in a context other than Sensei. To do this, my best suggestion is to do as Peter Goldsbury suggests: become his friend as well as his student or peer.

In the process, remember that the relationship of documenting oral history is a two-way street. For example, most of us don't keep detailed scrapbooks, and so you've got to fill in the blank spaces yourself. To do this, you have to go to the library and talk to the aunties and cousins yourself. Why? Because you have no idea how much easier it makes things when you bring in the newspaper clippings and photos with which to jog the memory. After all, "Oh, that's not quite right," or "You know, I was really surprised to beat ol' Hank in that tournament" are the typical preambles to much better stories than the ones you get if you sit passively, waiting to be spoonfed knowledge.

[autrelle]

does anyone forsee any specific changes, welcome or unwanted?

is there any change that anyone would want to see, or hope to not see?

here are a few things on my wish list:

-more nomenclature, especially with kokyu-nage and katamewaza. i feel it will help to preserve the body of aikido-waza. also, more specified categorization and organization of techniques. clear, and perhaps even universal definitions as to what is kihon, oyo, henka, kaeshi.

-as long as most dojo are using standardized test requirements, designate particular kokyunage per kyu/dan level as part of the test. whoa, that might mean assigning names to them.

-more to come as i recall them...

things on my "i hope it does not happen list":

-testing requirements made easier. i think that currently, it is almost too easy to get a shodan in aikido in the U.S., without really having the technical merit. maybe either the time required between exams shold be lengthened, or the tests should be more exacting. i have also seen examiners promote people that, according to discussions by the same examiners afterwards, were not prepared. it puzzles me.

okay, enough whining.

everyone out there-Have a great New Years! :beer:

truly

[Chris Li]

Originally posted by autrelle
here are a few things on my wish list:

-more nomenclature, especially with kokyu-nage and katamewaza. i feel it will help to preserve the body of aikido-waza. also, more specified categorization and organization of techniques. clear, and perhaps even universal definitions as to what is kihon, oyo, henka, kaeshi.

-as long as most dojo are using standardized test requirements, designate particular kokyunage per kyu/dan level as part of the test. whoa, that might mean assigning names to them.


Not a bad idea, but impossible, I think - you'll never get people to agree on a universal nomenclature across orgainizations. Even within the Aikikai (for example) there is a fairly wide range of nomenclature.

OTOH, there are a number of groups who name variations quite extensively - Iwama and Yoshinkan come to mind.



things on my "i hope it does not happen list":

-testing requirements made easier. i think that currently, it is almost too easy to get a shodan in aikido in the U.S., without really having the technical merit. maybe either the time required between exams shold be lengthened, or the tests should be more exacting.

Where in the US? My experience has been that, on the average, the US shodan requirements are anywhere from twice to three times the requirements in Japan (in the Aikikai, at least).

Bestm

Chris

[autrelle]

Happy New Year everyone!

Chris: thanks for your input. i was thinking of Iwama and Yoshinkan precisely as you mentioned. also, most koryu jujutsu styles seem to have no prob naming techniques. i think that even the more 'poetic' names help to preserve the techniques. i know it would would be impossible, but i think a good start would be to name the most commonplace kokyunage. and the same with some of the pins. i have heard that in Iwama, there are named pins that go from one through ten (rokkyo, nanakyo, etc.) that sort of clarity would be so so so so nice.

where in the U.S.? i think i would get in a big stink if i started naming names! i'll come forward as the first example! when i got my shodan, i did (IMO) quite well technically, but i felt that i should not have been tested so soon. since that day, i know (IMO) that i should not have been tested so soon. i guess it's a matter of opinion as far as what the qualifications, time and skill-wise, are.


truly

[Chris Li]

Originally posted by autrelle
where in the U.S.? i think i would get in a big stink if i started naming names! i'll come forward as the first example! when i got my shodan, i did (IMO) quite well technically, but i felt that i should not have been tested so soon. since that day, i know (IMO) that i should not have been tested so soon. i guess it's a matter of opinion as far as what the qualifications, time and skill-wise, are.

How soon are we talking about? I mean it's common to get your shodan in two years or so in Japan - you can make nidan in two years at Aikikai hombu without even trying all that hard...

Best,

Chris

[Ron Tisdale]

There is a big difference in what seems to be expected and what a "shodan" means in japan as opposed to the states (or europe for that matter). I'm not sure the two can be appropriately compared...especially in light of different organizations, different teachers, different individuals doing the actual test.

In my experience, I've seen a wide range of both time and skill requirements in the states. Especially between organizations. I'd say that 7 years to shodan is not unusual in the yoshinkan dojo I'm familiar with. There are some who do it in 4 or 5. I don't think I know anyone in the US or canadian yoshinkan dojo to do it in under 3 (or even in 3, for that matter).

Yet at hombu in japan, if you have the heart for it, the senshusei course will get you there in one year, and it seems to do a pretty good job, too. But then many of the people in that course already have shodan from their local organization, and lose it when they start the course. So in effect, they have two shodan rankings when they complete, one from their local instructor, one from the hombu. Aahhh, the best of both worlds, as it were.

Ron Tisdale

[autrelle]

i guess that a universal standard of excellence for testing will always be cagey!
one can always dream...

this has gotten a tad off topic.

any wish lists for 30-40 years in the future?

truly

[Mike Collins]

Wish list?? Hell, yes!

I'd like to do just one really exceptionally correct and flowingly powerful Ikkyo. Just one, then I can die.

[Chuck Clark]

I wouldn't mind just having the chance to practice for the next 30 years or so. I'll make use of it one day at a time.

Regards,