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shugyosha
22nd December 2001, 09:11
i wonder what is the real relation between taijutsu and jujutsu
is taijustu part of jujutsu or the opposite?
which one came first?
are they totaly separated and why do they look like so close?
thank you

jimi demi

fifthchamber
22nd December 2001, 17:55
Hello Shugyo,
(Please check the post in the sword arts forum for the name 'thing')
Jujutsu is (roughly) the 'Flexible art'. Taijutsu means 'Body art/techniques' Both terms can generally be used interchangeably..along with 'Yawara', 'Kugosoku', Koshi no Mawari' etc..As terms to indentify 'unarmed' martial arts..although a variety of weapons are used in the arts.
I think that 'Yawara' (Same character as 'Ju'-Flexible,soft,pliant) was the 'first' used but it would be hard to give an exact answer as the amount of Ryu-ha in Japan using various terms for (generally) the same thing was in the hundreds.
www.koryu.com has a good article on 'Taijutsu and Jujutsu-some background information' by Meik Skoss..a man who knows far more than I on the history of Koryu (Ancient schools)
Abayo.

J. A. Crippen
25th December 2001, 23:11
Fifthchamber, YM 'kogusoku', not 'kugosoku'. HTH.

fifthchamber
26th December 2001, 16:22
Hello Mr. Crippen,
Domo arigato gozaimashita..Sumimasen
Abayo.
(And have a good new year!)

MarkF
27th December 2001, 10:36
I believe taijutsu is a general term used for nearly all Japanese grappling styles of wrestling/fighting.

Yawara is indeed an alternate pronounciation of 'ju' but was probably used in conjunction with 'michi' as in Yawara no michi was probably how the term Ju Do was originally referred by the jikishin ryu of the 18th century.

Mark

Paul Mathews
27th December 2001, 15:26
An excellent discussion of the various names of "jujutsu" arts can be found in Serge Mol's book, CLASSICAL FIGHTING ARTS OF JAPAN: A Complete Guide to Koryu Jujutsu .:)

yamamatsuryu
31st December 2001, 21:17
Good question. If I may be so bold as to offer my 2 cents worth ;)
5th Camber is pretty much right on the money. The empty-handed skills of Japan were known by a variety of names. Ju-jutsu is the most popular name for it now, although it has been splintered so much that it is used generically (And don't get me started on the whole Jutsu-Do thing!!) for many arts. Tai-jutsu is probably second most popular (Being adopted by Aikido H2H techniques, and let us not forget the Togakure splinters using the term) although many Ryu-ha still use Yawara. Aiki-jutsu (Aiki-jujutsu) is another one, but they all pretty much amount to the same thing and share many similarities. (Don’t flame me on this one, I’m just elaborating ;))
As far as the relationship between them, the differences was not so much what the schools named the techniques, but in how they were performed.. For example, ABC-Ryu calls their H2H "Yawara no Michi" and encompass a linear approach (Striking and blocking), while XYZ-Ryu calls theirs "Yawara-no-Michi" and it’s based on a more circular approach. The name, although it’s the same for both ABC and XYZ schools, vary in their technique. Along the same thread, DEF-Ryu has Tai-Jutsu as their H2H, and UVW-Ryu calls theirs Ju-jutsu, yet their both the same techniques.
I guess what I’m saying is that the name doesn’t matter as much, it’s the training you receive.
"A rose, by any other name, still smells as sweet"
Anyway, just thought I’d throw a line in and see who’s biting! :D

Jared Albrecht

Brently Keen
3rd January 2002, 17:25
"Aiki-jutsu (Aiki-jujutsu) is another one, but they all pretty much amount to the same thing and share many similarities. (Don’t flame me on this one, I’m just elaborating)"

Then don't get me started! :)

Technically I suppose "taijutsu" is an all encompassing term (body arts/skills). However aikijujutsu, and jujutsu, koshi-mawari, kogusoku, etc... are not at all the same thing. :smash:

Please refer to numerous other posts in the ajj forum for more distinctions.

Happy New Year!

Brently Keen

yamamatsuryu
4th January 2002, 00:58
You just had to start, didn't you!!!!:laugh:
I generalized the term to prevent writing a full nine-page description detailing the differences. Let's just say that the difference is in the school and it's techniques, not the names. (Is that better, or do I need to put on my fire-gear??);)

Jared Albrecht