Iwama, Honbu, etc. dilemma

[hix]

Happy New Year to all,

I would like some opinions on cross training within Aikido "Styles" for lack of a better term.

I moved to Japan to Study Aikido. I have studied Iwama Ryu for over two years now under one teacher. In my area, the are two very famous teachers in Iwama Ryu. Isoyama Shihan and Saito Shihan. I also live about 1 hour from Honbu in Tokyo.
My main training is under Fukura Shihan. I train with him 3 days a week. And I will remain doing so.
I have enough time in my schedual to travel once a week and train with any of the former mentioned teachers; or I can travel to Honbu and train there.
As it seems in my dojo, or in Ibaraki, I should not go and train in Tokyo. But all I knew in the states, lead me to believe that the center of Aikido is in Honbu.
I have not recieved a Shodan, and I will wait until then to decide. But I am interested in what those of you think about this situation.
I have no prejudice against any of these organizations.

Thanks for listening.

Jonathan Hicks

The only thing permanent is change

:confused:

[szczepan]

Why limit yourself to Aikikai? I think in Tokyo you have also excellent Yoshinkan and Tomiki HQ. I would be gooooood idea to change BAD habits :smash:

Did you see, I didn't suggest you Ki-Society HQ - don't want you to waste your time :laugh:

Also you can keep your travels in certain discretion, to avoid politico-comical problems....

have fun!!!!!!!

very jealous Szczepan

[Jeff Hamacher]

i don't know that much about the specific differences between aikido as it is taught at Aikikai Hombu and in Iwama; beyond what i've read in Saito-sensei's excellent series of technical manuals (published by Aiki News), i can't claim to really understand the "Iwama style". i can, however, offer some thoughts on shifting gears in methods of study based on my experiences with martial arts, tea, and music.

i agree that your best plan is to stick with training under your current teacher until you attain shodan so as to assure yourself that you have a solid technical base in aikido for further study. even once that goal has been reached you will still have to be careful about how you approach cross-training. attending an occasional seminar (like the one offered by the Budokan every march for foreign martial arts students in japan) will help to give you new perspectives on training and technique, but going regularly to two or more different training sites will at best be confusing for you and in a worst-case scenario cause offense to your "primary" teacher. remember that loyalty to one's teacher is serious business to the japanese, although i can say the same thing of some of my cello teachers in canada. building a lasting relationship with your master is one of the most rewarding aspects of martial arts training and it's tough to achieve that when you're bouncing around between different dojos.

in response to your comment regarding the aikido hierarchy, the Aikikai Hombu is sort of the center of the aikido universe, but it does not determine the style of training found in outside organizations (Yoshinkan, Tomiki, Ki Society, etc.), and in some ways does not have direct control over training within its own network of member dojos. i must respectfully disagree with Szczepan on his recommendation to try regular cross-training with Yoshinkan or Tomiki. if you try one of those styles and choose to switch over completely that's fine, but the technical and philosophical differences between the schools is just too great to blend them, in my opinion.

the situation at the Aikikai Hombu is rather special in that there are so many different top-ranked instructors teaching during the week and registered students are allowed to attend any of those classes within the regulations of the fee structure. even though those teachers are under the same umbrella naturally they all have their own particular teaching styles, so those students get a lot of exposure to different approaches, and as far as i know their aren't any jealousies between instructors over student loyalties (you'd have to ask a member student to get the real story).

in short, you can choose between a kind of martial arts gumbo where you dabble in several different styles in an effort to "broaden your understanding" (to my mind, this is the philosophy that appeals to many "westerners"), or a concentrated form of training where you stick to one style and do your best to plumb its depths (the approach most acceptable to the japanese). this is not to suggest that cross training between completely different martial arts is impossible; plenty of people i know train in two or three. they just don't wander between different teachers within a given art. i'm out of time and i feel as though i haven't covered a few bases with this post, but i'm looking forward to hearing back from others with their ideas.

[Chris Li]

Originally posted by hix
My main training is under Fukura Shihan. I train with him 3 days a week. And I will remain doing so.

If you've already got your core training set up then I'd go for Aikikai hombu. The advantage there is that you can train with a large variety of teachers and students in one place. The disadvantage is that it can be hard to build personal relationships because of the size and turnover in the classes, but that shouldn't be a problem for you.

Best,

Chris

[hix]

Thanks a lot guys for the input so far.

I guess I should throw a little more background out. In the States, I studied Wado Karate for about 8 years, so the term cross-training might not be the proper term for this thread.
I loved Karate, but I think Aikido matches my character much better.
My problem is my attempt to reach the source or essence as closely as possible. I was attracted to Iwama because of the strong belief that they are keeping the tradition that O`Sensei started.
But basically, I just want to train under as many of the first generation teachers as possible.
I understand that this could have a negative effect. I`m just not sure in what way.


Jonathan Hicks :cool:

[red_fists]

Hi Jonathan.

From what you say it sounds like the honbu would suit you.

Another point I think you should consider is training frequency at the honbu.

If you cannot get there on a regular basis it might be better to stay where you are.

[rupert]

A couple of people mentioned training at Honbu. I tried it, and while it was a good opportunity to meet many students and teachers I found that there was no real club atmosphere - too many different people coming and going all the time (not to mention many foreigners, some with incredible chips on their shoulders, in my opinion). I didn't go to many classes, but have heard the same from different people - you have to stay there long term to get something out of it. In the end, I chose a regional Aikikai dojo and got to know everyone, including the teacher, very well and had a great time.

Rupert Atkinson

[Christiaan]

I agree with Mr. Hamacher. Stick with one teacher for some time until you have a thorough understanding of the difficulties that the kihon pose. That will take some years, but helps you give the experiences you will have (at different places, dojo or aiki-styles) afterwards a proper place. Perhaps the concept of shu-ha-ri will help you a bit in your search. Kazuo Chiba sensei for instance gives his interpretation in an interview with Aikido Journal. Surely your teacher can explain the concept to you too.
Good luck!

[Robert Cowham]

My (very limited) experience of hombu is similar to Rupert's - there are lots of people and it is difficult to build relationships. So really getting to know one sensei well brings a lot of advantages.

That said, it might be interesting to dip in and out of hombu teachers and "play the field", though you'd need a few classes with each teacher to really decide which ones might be worth investigating in more depth, so that would take some time.

Personally, I have a link to Inaba sensei at the Shiseikan which is in the Meiji Jingu shrine near Shinjuku. Rather different aikido but very interesting, especially the kenjutsu.

Robert

[hix]

Thanks Robert,

I would like to hear more about the Aikido you mentioned. Sounds like a cool place to train. You said the Aikido was a little different. Could you tell us a little about it?

Jonathan Hicks

[red_fists]

Hi Jonathan.

From what I hear some of the Teachers at the Honbu also teach at other locations.

The Shrine where I train also has one of the 9th Dan Aikikai teaching classes twice a week. Plenty of foreign names shown on the Student plagues in the Dojo.

But it will be further from you than Shinjuku, about 25 min on Train.
But than it depends where you catch a transfer within Tokyo.

If it is Tokyo station, you could get a direct connection.

[Robert Cowham]

Jonathan

For some idea check our website www.movingeast.co.uk/tetsushinkan (http://www.movingeast.co.uk/tetsushinkan/) .

Inaba sensei focuses on very few aikido techniques - he is much more interested in developing the body and sensitivity etc.

On the honbu teachers teaching elsewhere, Paul Smith (our chief instructor) trained at honbu for a few months quite a while ago and for example attended all Yamaguchi sensei's classes. It took a while before he was permitted to attend Yamaguchi's private dojo (I think this is not dissimilar to Bill Gleason's experience which he has written about on the web).

Robert