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Wobbly Boxer
10th January 2002, 19:28
Hello,

I am mostly a lurker here but I’m moved to offer some perspective and opinion in response to the above topic, and especially to the overall atmosphere on this and several similar boards like the AJJ board.

I have come to miss the input of the most senior and authoratative members on E-Budo. Has anyone realized how infrequent substantive input is offered nowadays from the likes of Meik Skoss, Chuck Clark, Dave Lowry, Ellis Amdur, Toby Threadgill, Guy Power, Earl Hartman, Scott Irey or John Ray etc...

(Nathan Scott, Carl McClafferty, Colin Hyakutake, Bob Elder...thanks for continuing your dedicated presence here..)

I wonder, do these mostly absent members no longer offer regular comment because they have been run off? Do they believe that debating some of “the regulars” here only elevates these individuals opinions to a level not worthy of their experience? Maybe they are just tired of the silliness. Or, do they think that the wisdom of their experience is wasted in a forum like this? we all know that any bozo of unknown experience or rank can offer up any off the cuff opinion he wants without any talent or basis for his opinion? ( It’s so Japanese that someone like Chuck Clark should just quietly withdraw.)

One particularly longwinded “regular” posts on the AJJ board as if he was a senior exponent. I have only recently learned that he barely holds dan rank, no longer has an active dojo and maintains no significant presence within the organizationor art he touts so stridently. Other “regulars” continue to offer impressively worded diatribes of opinion which subtlty represent themselves to be much more authorative than they actually are.

Well, many of those no longer regularly contributing here have the talent, experience and licenses (even Okuden Mokuroku) to back up their opinions. We should encourage them to post more regularly and actually absorb their opinions instead of debating or insulting them. What they offer us and bring to E-budo is a gift and we should treat it as such.E-budo is less with their absence.

So, Mr Partamian, go right ahead and and keep “Daito ryu Study Group” under your name. I for one appreciate it. It tells me plenty about you and the weight I should give your input. I don’t find it arrogant at all. Leave the arrogance to the non-experts that speak like experts.

You know, thats why I love boxing so much. You go off and throw your mouth around too much in boxing and you’ll attract a guy who’ll knock it shut for you. Perhaps that’s why samurai society became so polite .

Okay, back to lurking.

Tom Thomas

Ginzu Girl
10th January 2002, 20:09
Hi Tom,
I did some browsing before joining eBudo (very recently, you'll notice) and one of the things that impressed me about these forums was the membership.

Which brings up an excellent point. I wish to publicly thank our senior members, past and present, for donating their time and knowledge to the rest of us.

Although I do not physically stand before you, I hope you will accept my appreciative, thoughtful, and very deep bow.

:smilejapa
Maido. Doomo arigato gozaimasu!

P.S.--Let's hope our cyber-teachers have not really left us but are still lurking.
P.P.S.--Let's also strive to be better students by presenting threads that inspire thought and response! :idea:

Arman
10th January 2002, 23:47
Tom,

Thanks for your comments. I agree that E-Budo should be a forum for open, intelligent and thoughtful discussion. To the extent that those more knowledgeable and experienced than us do not post, it is a loss to E-Budo, whatever their reasons may be.

While I know almost nothing about the backgrounds of various people who post, I am of the opinion that we should work to foster openness and respect on the board. The last thing E-Budo should become is a vehicle for people to exercise their ego.

Let's not forget, E-Budo is a PUBLIC forum, for PUBLIC discussion. I think this fact requires two things from contributors to maintain the integrity of the BB:

1) Mutual respect and an effort to maintain decency in posts,
2) A commitment to fostering thoughtful discussion and debate.

We should all be concerned about efforts to staunch thoughtful discussion on a public forum like E-Budo.

As for my identification with the Daito-ryu Study Group, to me it only seems courteous to identify your martial arts emphasis when discussing martial arts. After all, in any academic forum, nobody gets to speak who doesn't identify their credentials. I am not suggesting that contributors should be required to do so. I'm just saying that sometimes it helps give the reader a point of reference.

Over-all, I think the moderators do an excellent job of moderating. I think, therefore, that it is up to contributors (like you and me, and everyone else on here) to step up and help self-regulate this board. I would'nt even bother if I didn't think E-Budo was worth it.

Thanks again,
Cheers,:toast:
Arman Partamian
Daito-ryu Study Group
Maryland

Kit LeBlanc
11th January 2002, 01:25
Some continue to post from time to time on other boards. Budoseek, Bugei Sword Forum, etc.

Part of the problem might be the SAME questions, the SAME misguided opinions (all coming from a position of equal weight) and the SAME corrections having to be made time and again. Maybe they are tired of sounding like a broken record.

Same problem has occurred with the Combatives forum, which died a while ago.

Cady Goldfield
11th January 2002, 02:33
Tom,

How can you tell that someone is "a non-expert who talks like an expert" until you feel his waza?

Things are often very different than they appear on the surface. I learned long ago to accept with a grain of salt the stories and "information" about individual exponents, as often such information fails to grasp the subtlety or nuance of the truth and circumstance.

The proof to me is on the mats... what is the individual able to do? What does he or she actually know?

For example, I came into my current training at a small but very active dojo, after more than 20 years of serious study in another martial art, and years of study in a variety of martial systems. What I found was not just an art that surpassed anything that I could dream of in terms of martial cogency and effectiveness, but also an exponent with great breadth and depth of skill, as well as advanced insights into the arts as a whole and his areas in particular.

And yet, he was very straightforward about the dojo being a study group, and about his being no more than a questing student himself, interested only in advancing his skills and abilities. "No rank here," he said, "no status, no glory. There's only sweat and failure and improvement and our own satisfaction in what we learn."

Frankly, I prefer to train with this outstanding exponent, despite the lack of fancy titles or ranks to earn, than go train with someone who has and gives out pieces of paper in some acclaimed art, but who has nowhere near the skill, knowledge or ability of the person I was fortunate to "find." It doesn't surprise me a bit that "people of status" in the arts confer with him and trade opinions because they respect his. And, anyone who has ever trained with him has an equal or greater degree of regard and respect for this gifted individual.

So, interpret the writing of participants here as you will; after all, there is no way to prove a person is other than what you, personally, perceive from his writing. But, the truth of a person's abilities is not in the status he has gained in the mainstream, but in what he actually knows and what degree of skill he possesses. You can't know that from a forum on the 'net. That's why I try to reserve judgement and give people the benefit of the doubt until I meet and train with them.

Regards,
Cady

Nathan Scott
11th January 2002, 10:49
Hi Lads,

Good thread. I think someone hit it on the head. Those with a few years of experience in budo should perhaps try to think of more thought provoking questions to discuss. I created a FAQ at my dojo web page simply because my fingers got tired of typing the same thing every week. Personally, I'd love to discuss things that are not posted on my FAQ! If you see me referring someone to my FAQ, you know it is a topic that has been well discussed!

:)

I've also seen some senior budo-ka posting on boards that do not require real names, or that do not have as cordial of an atmosphere. We can probably assume that they are looking around for fresh questions and new faces, posting in other forums looking for different opinions and experiences.

E-budo has a massive member base, but few people actually contribute. Those that do tend to be the same ones. I keep hoping that people are not getting sick of seeing my own name pop up all the time!

Coming from the perspective of a moderator, I try not to over (or under) moderate. Part of the job is to stimulate topics if things get quiet for too long, which some moderators do and some don't.

Personally, I've got a never ending amount of questions and topics I'd be interested in discussing. How 'bout you all?

There has to be more interesting things to post on a discussion forum than "does anyone know if there is a dojo near the zzyzx exit on the way to Las Vegas?".

Good discussions bring good experience level debates. That is how e-budo attracted so many of the well known and respected names originally.

Let's leave the agenda's at home and see what our peer's and senior's have to say.

Let's get it on!

Wobbly Boxer
12th January 2002, 01:32
Ms Goldfield,

You posted:

“How can you tell that someone is "a non-expert who talks like an expert" until you feel his waza? “

&

“I learned long ago to accept with a grain of salt the stories and "information" about individual exponents, as often such information fails to grasp the subtlety or nuance of the truth and circumstance.”


***********

My points exactly. Now I’m not trying to be disrespectful but why should I believe you? What point of serious reference can you give the readers here. Do you have any teaching license. Barring that, have you ever fought full contact? (Not Tae Kyon Do tit for tat sparring either.) Any real fighting. Can you mix it up with an experienced boxer? Do you have a record to back up your numerous pronouncments? Have you rolled around with a Gracie Jujutsu or Sambo guy and been victorious? How many times have you been knocked out or choked out? Have you been a victim of a violent street assault and defeated your attacker with Daito ryu. If so, can this be verified by eyewitness account or a police report?

You see, with me its deeds, or formal recognition from someone with deeds that makes the grade. Fancy verbage and talk of “secrets” make me snore.

I have met those who talk big and those who do big. Often they are two different people. Last fall I visited the dojo of one of the people I mentioned in my earlier post. I studied from his teacher for a time back in the seventies and eighties. This sensei, a classically taught guy was one of the best practical street defense instructors I ever met. Frankly, I was curious if this guy, newly sporting a fancy title was up to snuff. I’ll admit that I had my doubts. During my visit I was impressed by his obvious dedication and teaching ability but I still had my doubts about his toughness as this school is known for it. I decided to push him a bit and see how he reacted. Well, I got knocked out once and choked out once, all to the delight of an observing co-worker of mine. I didn’t get angry. I went in looking for something and probably pushed a little too hard, and he pushed back. I got my answer ( he deserves the paper) and he earned my respect. We parted as friends. End of story.

Years earlier I mixed it up with another guy on that list who now has his own system. How many founders of their own systems do we know who are up to the task or deserve the respect that goes with that position? Almost none in my opinion. But this guy? He’s good as gold. Judo and aikido at levels hard to find. He’s earned my respect on the mat in plain view of god and country. He’s definitely a for real martial arts shihan.

Now don’t get me wrong. I understand and appreciate the classical arts and all their adherence to tradition. Its a tradition that requires them to maintain a public front that can appear downright stuffy, especially outside the lense of Japanese culture. So in that sphere I take the word of an expert and that means paper from an expert. In a classical system you either have paper or you don’t. If you don’t have the paper then don’t go around talking smack. Meik Skoss can talk smack, he’s got the paper. Guy Power and Scott Irey can talk smack for the same reason. Chuck Clark can just smack you. Ellis Amdur and Toby Threadgill both have the paper and both can smack you. John Ray and Earl Hartman are too polite to smack you, but I know they could and John has the paper for sure.

So, if you want to make fancy claims and talk secrets, while hiding behind the propriety of a classical system, but you don’t have the paper, you better be ready to put up your dukes and prove you’re for real. Be prepared to earn your respect under the harsh light of scrutiny or stop with the kuchi waza already.

Now I’ve gone off and said too much so I’m back to lurking, for real this time.

Tom Thomas

Neil Yamamoto
12th January 2002, 01:49
I hardly qualify as one who contributes anything of substance, but I know many people who do. ;)

I came to the conclusion that not a lot can be done except answer the same questions again and again. I can do that with my own few students and at friends schools, I don't need to do it on the internet repeatedly. Maybe it's just me, but I get tired of a good thread getting channeled into a high noise to signal ratio which happened often enough to make me slow any posting I do and lurk like a ninja in the shadows, waiting for the guard to appear so I can kill him and carry out my mission of killing the evil merchant.

Joe Svinth and Mark Fiegenbaum made the comment to me that I never really say anything really worthwhile, and when I do, it's worded in a way that most people don't even get my point. Mostly covered by sarcasm and humor so people go on as if I never even posted. Gee, they figured me out.

I have been overly busy as most people are now with work and while I still lurk, I don't post as often as I used to and when I start to post, I usually find myself changing my mind and going "It ain't worth the effort." Like everyone here as posted, tired of the same old same old.

Perhaps a bad attitude on my part, but I'll keep posting on what I can contribute in knowledge of booze and food and being an evil corrupting influence of humor to the serious nature of martial arts here on the forums, just not as often as I used to is all.

By the way, does anyone know of a good aikijujutsu school here in Seattle?

Cady Goldfield
12th January 2002, 02:05
Tom,

Forums on the internet are just for schmoozing. No one expects anyone to take what's said without those grains of salt. Many of us are here because we enjoy interacting and getting an insight (or providing one here or there). If "pedigreed" budoka choose to participate too, that's great. But internet forums are not academic symposia. They exist as entertainment and as a venue where people can converse and express themselves.

Maybe you take it too seriously.

No, I have no "pedigree" in my current art, and I'm a beginner in it with just a few years experience. But I have trained in martial arts for nearly half my life, have registered rank at a world-recognized school and international organization, and have used my (earlier) martial skills to save my life more than once. That's qualification enough for me to express opinions and share personal experiences.

Of course I don't expect you to take my word for anything. It probably wouldn't matter whether I told you that I have been choked out, knocked out and have also been assaulted on the street and successfully used my art (albeit not DR, as the street violent part of my life was before I even knew DR existed).

If you really think you need proof of everyone's qualifications, nothing is stopping you from asking those "no names" you doubt for permission to visit their dojo and experience their arts for yourself.

Many here aren't just talking, and they're not dojo bunnies. They're people who have studied and searched for years to find what "works" for them. Maybe they don't have famous names because rather than blowing horns and trumpets, they're just quietly training and sweating.

If you need "name brands" to accept information from participants on this forum, that's your prerogative. But sometimes people pass up a priceless work because it didn't come with papers, or is a bit unpolished. To not listen to what someone has to say because he doesn't have a famous name, sometimes deprives you of something of great value. And by the way, some of those unpedigreed guys can "smack you" just as well, and perhaps better (and with as much or more finesse and technique), than the very distinguished people you listed. I don't mean this to sound arrogant; just stating fact.

If I had blown off the stuff written by the person who is now my instructor, because he didn't have a "name," I would have lost the opportunity of a lifetime and not even have known it.

Regards,
Cady

Scott Irey
12th January 2002, 02:11
Just to prove that lurking isn't all I am good for anymore...
Neil, I am not aware of any open aikijutsu schools here in Seattle but there is a Takeda-ryu guy living here that is pretty darn good, I have the dislocated rib to prove it :) (of maybe that means I am THAT bad....I prefer to believe the former ;)
And there is of course Ellis Amdur but I don't believe he is accepting students in his Araki-ryu group...I could be wrong...but now that I have invoked his name, maybe he will post something here to. I would have been scared to mention him in the past, but now that he has that new tooth in his head he doesn't look quite as scary as before...almost, but not quite ;)

Tom...You are putting me in the same group as some real heavy hitters...I am just an iaido guy with a snotty attitude on occasion. Don't get me in trouble with the big dogs...some of them live too close for me to make waves ;)

Cady Goldfield
12th January 2002, 02:13
Neil,
Maybe you don't say much, but that doctored Gary Larson cartoon you circulated a while back sure made an impact... I still have a copy.

Cady:laugh:

Joseph Svinth
12th January 2002, 02:13
A keyword search "aiki jujutsu Seattle" suggests that you might want to study with the gentleman who claims 27 degrees of black belt in five styles of swordsmanship and 6 degrees of black belt in karate, aikido, and aiki jujutsu. (There are a couple other guys locally, but between us, I have to say that they are most charitably described as charter members of the middle aged fat man's club.)

yamamatsuryu
12th January 2002, 02:51
Hey Joe!!!
What's wrong with us middle-aged fat people?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Seriousely, I don't know of too-many Aiki people on the coast, other than your standard Aikido. There's the Aikikai (Bruce Bookman), or one-world Aikido (This branch is from the John Stevens/Shirata Rinjiro Sensei fame). I did find a Aiki-jutsu Dojo in the Seattle area, but know next to nothing about it (And, living in the Tri-Cities, I'm probably not going to drive all the way to Seattle just to find out). Since you live in the area, you could probably browse around better than I could :)
I don't believe that Mr. Amdur is accepting walk-in students at this time, nor is Mr. Relnick (I could be wrong, as I have not chatted with them in quite a while).

Anyway, good luck with your search!!

Jared Albrecht

(Edited on 11Jan01 for my rotton schpellun')

Ginzu Girl
12th January 2002, 03:52
Most of the discussions about technical execution, real-world applicability, and legitimacy of pedigrees are w-a--y over my head. I wouldn't know a Viking Ryu 27th Dan Dai-Soke from an eBay Sokemon. (Well, perhaps the latter would look cuter and smell better.)

On the other hand, I know what type of person I prefer spending my time with--respectful, pays attention to detail, kind, confident, socially gracious (particularly under pressure), well-read, thoughtful, caring.

To borrow what someone wisely observed about "kata" in another thread, there is absolutely no correlation between physical excellence and moral righteousness. Look at professional sports. Marvelous athletes. Sadly, many of them seem to think that having exceptional physical skills is enough to make up for being rather incomplete human beings.

While I doubt it I could detect whether someone is technically competent via the written word, it's relatively easy to tell whether they lack the personal qualities I care about. In that case, I'm really not too interested in hearing their pearls of wisdom.

Man, I sound old! Oh well, at least I'm not fat.:p

Nathan Scott
12th January 2002, 05:03
Ummm, while I'm sure Neil appreciates all the time and effort some of you are putting into his request for AJJ in Seattle, I hate to say that... he lives in Seattle and was making a bit of an inside joke.

I wasn't going to say anything, but I was afraid more of you would make the mistake of taking him seriously! Yuck yuck yuck!


On the other hand I know what type of person I prefer spending my time with--respectful, pays attention to detail, kind, confident, socially gracious (particularly under pressure), well-read, thoughtful, caring.

Gee, how would you feel about a long distance relationship to California? I think I know just the person your looking for!

:D

Ginzu Girl
12th January 2002, 05:35
Uhh. . . . Is he fat? . . .More importantly, what rank is he? :laugh:

BTW, you'll notice that while I require them in everyone else, I didn't claim to offer any of these finer qualities myself.:p

Well, if you're really serious. . .let me check with my boyfriend tonight and get back to you.:D

Nathan Scott
12th January 2002, 06:44
Well, if you're really serious. . .let me check with my boyfriend tonight and get back to you.

Aw, I'm just funning. But if you want, we can have your boyfriend call me fiance and see if we can work something out (yeah, right!).

:D

Sorry to draw this thread so far off topic. Anyway, it's all Neil's fault!! Hee hee hee

TommyK
12th January 2002, 06:46
Greetings,

I also miss some of those that were mentioned at the beginning of this thread, but I do not miss those that know all that there is to know about everything. I'm sure you know who these are.

However, while I'm not trying to flame anyone, I will say that those who remain here, Joe Svinth, Neil, Cady, MarkF and so on deserve our respect for their pundits of wisdom.

Not all wisdom and knowledge lurks in the name personalities. Sometimes wisdom is found in the words of a 'newbie'. Many basic questions need to be answered for many, so I do understand why some of the names are gone, too much of the same thing. But the same thing does serve a purpose. I come here to throw in my .02 cents and to learn from others

I hope those that are M I A from the forum re-appear and those that do share, continue to do so.

Regards,
TommyK
Tom Militello

"One must first know how to do violence, before one chooses not to!:

Neil Yamamoto
12th January 2002, 11:05
Aw Nathan, you spoiled me fun. You owe me a wee dram of Belvinie Doublewood next time we hook up! My best to your beautiful fiance who posseses the patience of Mother Teresa and whom deserves the best you can offer. Coming up for Bluming I hope?


Anita, I thought you were describing me don'cha know! I fit all of those qualities. (Everyone who knows me, keep quiet!!)

Back on topic, some will come back, some won't. What it comes down to really is the internet is great for keeping in touch and making new friends. But you will seldom get really serious discussions on details.

Most of the people who have put in the sweat and time are not going to give away anything publicly and that's just the way it is. Anyone who has put in the effort will happily discuss general issues in detail but not the specifics. Makes for less interesting reading, but that's the way it works in anything worthwhile.

By the way, can anyone tell me a good scotch to try?

Joseph Svinth
12th January 2002, 15:33
Neil --

Here's one you might try:

http://simplyscottish.safeshopper.com/415/cat415.htm?517

47th ronin
12th January 2002, 17:28
By the way, can anyone tell me a good scotch to try? [/B]

For someone with your obvious interest, yet lack of experience, might I suggest Dalwhinnie? The light heather taste would be a good introduction to some of the finer things, like a Lagavulin or Talisker. But stay away from Ardbeg, it is too deep and robust for an amateur drinker, it s definitely an acquired taste

Jerry Johnson
12th January 2002, 18:22
Wobbly Boxer Wrote:

Can you mix it up with an
experienced boxer? Do you have a record to back up your numerous
pronouncments? Have you rolled around with a Gracie Jujutsu or Sambo guy and
been victorious? How many times have you been knocked out or choked out? Have
you been a victim of a violent street assault and defeated your attacker with
Daito ryu. If so, can this be verified by eyewitness account or a police report?

You see, with me its deeds, or formal recognition from someone with deeds that
makes the grade. Fancy verbage and talk of “secrets” make me snore.

An interesting perspective which I'd like to comment on. I for one am a martial artist, who understands that what I do is a hobby. I understand what I learn it is about defeating another human-being. May it be mentally or physically. I also understand I am not 25 years old any more. My body has changed and has new needs and limitations. I no longer (want) can perform like a "Power Ranger."

I also don't think it is wise to allow one's ego to land them in A) jail or B) more than likely, dead to prove verification of skill. I don't think my family would want a dead martial artist, much less a criminal one. This is not 15th century Japan.


We live in a crazy society. We have complex home security systems for our homes. We fear that our children may not come home from school alive. And our roadways are theaters of deadly road-rage. Victims of minor crimes usually don't live. And those with martial arts skill may not have an edge. That is every one isn't an instant "Bruce Lee" attacked.. Just because you take Martial arts or Martial sport training doesn't mean you don't suck, even after 20 years of training and a shelf full of Trophies "when the moment of truth is upon you. There is no guarantee when learning martial arts you will survive much less survive an attack. Today when faced in a life or death situation is really a crap shoot.

Being in a ring fight with rules( controlled environment ) is a contractual agreement situation. It is subjective to verify skill and ability. Both fighters agree on the limits and limitations of the fight. A third party ( witness) insures the contract is met. And a fourth party ( usually a panel of witnesses) makes a decision. The outcome of the situation in general is subjective and effected by interpretation. Which is far different than "when the moment of truth is upon you." Side note, sure such fighters can be intimidating with all the muscle and bravo verbiage, but isn't that 1/2 the battle?

The other thing I find interesting is why some people feel that don't suck in skill. It was mentioned that a person went into a dojo and got his butt kicked, and the person who kicked butt, must, therefore, be a martial arts god who isn't just talk. This logic is strange to me despite it seems universal. I see it this way. The guy who kicked butt isn't all that great if the person he kicked butt on sucked in the first place. If a 2nd kyu of X ryu kicks a 4th kyu's butt of Y ryu (note the 4th kyu has no ability to be proficient in learning martial arts, hence will always suck in martial arts, doesn't make the 6th kyu an ass kicking expert of the world. Testimonials are subjective also.

Frankly, machismo B.S. and testimonials make me snore. The point is what ever the talk is, it is still talk. May it be an old washed up judo guy that never found that "15 mins of fame" even on the internet, to the snobby Koryu intellect whose practices museum arts and found "15" mins of fame. Therefore, I keep in mind that there is always someone out there better then you in some way. And there are a few individuals out there that are truly at the top of their game. And even fewer that are at the top of their game through out their life-time. The rest of us smucks are bottom feeds struggling for fame. We are looking for sometime of reward and engaging in "one up-man-ship" either as wannabe cerebral net groupies or in some quasi entertainment brawling circus ring flexing testosterone and stupidity. Or for some, who simply don't give a damn about either.

In my opinion concerning the topic, not to be personal, but despite what some think they are not gods or are they the only one's with knowelege or a point to be made. That is as some seem them as.
Of those mentioned some probably got tired of the the smoozing, elbow rubbing and snuggling responses and the flames. Or just didn't have anything more to say. Or for some they realized the more said the less valued. Or they where exposed enough to move on to a paying market.

This forum is no better or worse off with or without a "so called" select few that seem to be worshiped by some posters. It still is a public forum with a rich and vast variety of opinions and discussions. There are flamers, trolls, wanntabes, those looking for their 15 mins, bullies,smoozers, intellects, honest, truthful, insightive, sincere, and brave posters. The forum is alive and ever changing.

Personally,am glad there is change.

Nathan Scott
12th January 2002, 19:42
By the way, can anyone tell me a good scotch to try?


Hey guys, .... Aw, skip it.

Jerry Johnson
12th January 2002, 22:57
I hope my post didn't make anyone angry who think they are elite. As I see it there are those who are elite and those nipping at their heals. I am sure the real elite have secure with themselves to see my point and understand this post wasn't a flame at people who worked for what they have and rightfully earned. Clearly if they take offense and are only looking at the first layer of the onion ( my being an onion ) I am sorry. It is the martial arts groupies and second fiddles I am complaining about. Those who think of themselves as elite.

I like to give credit where credit is due, and I feel that those of us with "common" status here have allot to contribute as well. And those who are condescending elite worshipers who think too highly of themselves are a farce. What they contribute ( right or wrong )interferes with the dialogue of this board. i.e. This whole idea that Mr. Wannabe second fiddle who knows better or more then anyone else because he/she dances on the stage of popularity that was built by a media driven Sensei is laughable. Especially when he/she has the arrogance and tenacity to admonish and caution others what is proper and what isn't. But more importantly, such person misdirects correct information, and tends to squelch other people's views. As well as interfere with information of those who do have knowledge. Sadly this is all done in the vain attempt to wriggle to some kind of self style internet popular status.

To those with real knowledge and not the B.S.ers(despite whether you are put on a pedistool or not, who wish not to be in the lime light, & who see themselves not above the rest I thank you for providing me with an opportunity for insight, laughs, disagreements, and for sharing ideas and converstation. :toast:


I rather be a nobody and earn it than be a somebody who didn't.

Kit LeBlanc
13th January 2002, 01:42
Why is it almost every thread Neil is involved with ends up with Scotch as the topic?

I hope from now on they won't be about a) scotch and b) an online dating service for Neil.

Anita, word of caution...stay AWAY...stay VERY far away.

(Or, come to Bluming in March and see what he is REALLY like! ;)

Yamantaka
13th January 2002, 13:39
Originally posted by Jerry Johnson
I like to give credit where credit is due, and I feel that those of us with "common" status here have allot to contribute as well.

YAMANTAKA : Glad to hear that, since I belong to that "team"...;)


Originally posted by Jerry Johnson
And those who are condescending elite worshipers who think too highly of themselves are a farce. What they contribute ( right or wrong )interferes with the dialogue of this board. i.e. Especially when he/she has the arrogance and tenacity to admonish and caution others what is proper and what isn't. But more importantly, such person misdirects correct information, and tends to squelch other people's views. Sadly this is all done in the vain attempt to wriggle to some kind of self style internet popular status.


YAMANTAKA : What do ya mean, Sir? That Wobbly (Whoa!) Boxer is trying to authoritatively admonish and caution ourselves but is really a troll??? :eek:
Best regards and always a good keiko

Joseph Svinth
13th January 2002, 20:02
Kit --

It's because Neil keeps trying to point you toward the True Path.

Nathan, on the other hand, is a spoilsport.

Jerry Johnson
13th January 2002, 20:43
YAMANTAKA,
See, there was this one guy here who thought he was king of the crap pile. Some people liked him most didn't. But allot agreed with a cause this "king" was proselytizing But one day this "king" when too far and took unfair cheap shots at a legitimate and respected group of folks- who the "king" felt where snobby elite. This "king" feeling abandoned and being admonished- by some respected authorities -hit the high road and left this group.

Now my guess this "king" is feeling out the waters. Looking for support and sympathy. Now whether W.G. is a troll is debatable. But I what is for sure in my mind W.G. is associated with the "king".

My post was directed at this situation in a way without bring too much attention ( what this kings wants) to the "king" and his jesters. I wanted to make a point to the "king" and his hypocrisy. I personally think that the film "Apocalypse Now" is an integral part of the "king's" persona. Which he has made several l attempts to test the water via posts to once again stand in some kind of lime light. It has been said about Hollywood fame that I think relates to the "king" and his court and that is "stardom [fame] is the greatest addiction a person can kick. My post relates to him and solely to him, and for him. No matter how abstract or disconnected it may seem to others.

Joseph Svinth
13th January 2002, 22:43
In all seriousness, note that several of the "missing" are professional writers and/or martial arts teachers. You don't go to the doctor and expect free medical advice, or the lawyer and expect free legal advice. But here the implication is that free writing is expected from writers and martial arts teachers.

Why? Isn't their time valuable, too?

Jerry Johnson
14th January 2002, 04:23
I know it may be rude of me to jump in here and comment on Mr. Svinth's post, in a sense I agree with him, people have to make a living. But on the other hand that shouldn't stop anyone from friendly conversation. Though the sad part of that is that such "missing" people are subject to the "bird on the wire" syndrome of sorts and are big target for some people to flame. This may be for no other reason then professional or petty jealousy. The other thing that may be an affect is the "king of the hill" game. Where those climbing the ranks attack well-know people [who are not posting any more] to discredit them and make themselves [the attackers] more marketable. The last reason being which Joe hit was they are professionals. Which means, like I said before, they have moved on to paying markets. If this is so then the use of E-budo to gain more profitability is unsettling, but understandable.

I guess now what we do is wait for those new "professionals" in the wings to take center stage here on E-Budo.

Chuck Clark
14th January 2002, 06:51
Originally posted by Wobbly Boxer
( It’s so Japanese that someone like Chuck Clark should just quietly withdraw.)
Tom Thomas

I don't know Mr. Thomas or what he knows of me, but I'm still around. I tend to scan E-Budo and read what interests me and usually only add a post when I think that what I have to offer is worthwhile.

There are lots of members that I really enjoy reading and have learned much from them. I look forward to the "gems" that I find here.

I do think that much of what goes on is similar to what happened as CB radio became popular some years ago. Lots of "noise" caused many people to keep quiet and only use the radio when necessary.

I value E-Budo (and other internet sources) for what it is and what it aspires to be and I take part when it seems like a good idea. As for being "Japanese"... I gave that up years ago. There is much about Japanese culture that I find attractive and probably just as much that I think is negative (same can be said about lots of different cultures including American culture), however ... a chicken can't ever be a duck.

I will continue to lurk and then jump in when it feels right to do so.

Regards,

Wobbly Boxer
14th January 2002, 16:54
Mr Clark,

I met you in Houston years ago at the dojo of Mr Geis. I was impressed greatly with you. Please continue to post when you see fit.

Thx

Tom Thomas

14th January 2002, 17:35
Tom,

Humm.....Interesting post. I think I know where you're coming from so I "get it" but maybe you do expect too much here. There is always going to be background noise. Take a look around......Do you ever shop at Sam's. Sheesh!

The real gems of info available here pertain to bizarre comedy, scotch drinking, interesting photos and cartoons, Star Wars rewrites, personal lampooning...ie that interesting likeness of me in a jock strap courtesy of John Lindsey - thanks John, and the ever amazing investigative talents of Joe Svinth. Wow!

Every now and then someone like Prof Bodiford plops down a real piece of insight but those things are the " cherry on top" as it were.

I'm here for the comedy and getting to know guys like Chuck Clark, Nathan Scott etc......everything beyond that is way down the list..... except of course being channeled by Neil Yamamoto into thinking I'm drinking Lagavulin when I'm really slammin Thunderbird.

What are friends for?


Toby Threadgill

Earl Hartman
14th January 2002, 20:46
Since my name has been brought up by someone who seems to think highly of my posts to e-budo, I just thought I would say that while I am flattered that he thinks I am a man to be reckoned with, he is including me in a pretty august group to which I am not sure I deserve to belong. I would like to think that I have learned something about budo and that I have reached a certain level of accomplishment in my chosen arts. Also, I fancy myself somewhat of an amateur historian, and I enjoy research; and since a lot of nonsense is said and written about Japanese budo, I get a perverse sense of satsifaction from debunking certain myths to the best of my ability. However, a dangerous man I am not. I also enjoy reading the posts of the people he has mentioned, but since I have said pretty much all I am qualified to say (unless somebody starts up a serious discussion about kyudo, the only art I know that has not been done to death here) I just browse looking for discussions to which I can contribute and posts submitted by specific people, which, by virtue of their authorship, are always worth reading and are always educational. Other than that, the bloom is off the rose, and a lot of the traffic on e-budo just rehashes stuff we've been over before. However, rest assured that if and when a subject comes up to which I can contribute, I will do so. Sorry about the run-on paragraph. The "Return" key on my computer doesn't work. It seems that keyboards and hot tea do not mix. And why the heck is it now impossible to go from one page to the next on the same thread? Do we really have to go back to thread listing and click on the next page if the thread is more than one page?

Nathan Scott
14th January 2002, 20:51
Mr. Johnson,


The other thing that may be an affect is the "king of the hill" game. Where those climbing the ranks attack well-know people [who are not posting any more] to discredit them and make themselves [the attackers] more marketable.

You have a good point here. I've seen this behavior recently on another forum.

Hey Toby - I've heard rumors that the Poop-toon is going to be posted finally on that old thread in the AJJ forum. I just hope that it isn't Neil who does it. He's known for that kind of thing, you know. But it might be it's creator as well. I guess I'll just wait and see what happens.

:)

BTW, I hope I'll be getting a valentine card this year! Yuck yuck yuck.

Good to hear from you again.

Nathan Scott
14th January 2002, 21:04
Hi Earl-san,

The glitch you mentioned about the numbers is something that John has been working on. He said recently that retrieving that function right now is turning out to be more complicated that he had expected, and that he may have to wait until the next software update to recover this utility (which I think will be in the near future).

BTW, I may be coming back up again to San Jose at the end of March - if so, I'll call to see if your available to make some rounds.

Hey, we should have threads like this more often.

Earl Hartman
14th January 2002, 21:24
Nathan: Be sure to call me. I can be free any evening except Friday (damn Return key.).

15th January 2002, 00:00
Nathan,

You posted:

"Hey Toby - I've heard rumors that the Poop-toon is going to be posted finally on that old thread in the AJJ forum. I just hope that it isn't Neil who does it. He's known for that kind of thing, you know. But it might be it's creator as well. I guess I'll just wait and see what happens."

Poop-toon?.....Poop-toon?

I don't know wh wh wh what you're talking about. :smokin:

If it gets posted Neil was channelin me again.

Tobs

P.S. Earl, I'm going to buy you one of those clear plastic thingy's that go over the keyboard to keep booze and other liquids out of the workin's. I've spit so much coffee on mine by reading Neils posts, just as I take a sip, that it was a required purchase here at Toby Towers. Actually....now that I think about it....the last time I flooded my keyboard, it was an e-mail from Ellis that set me off. Something about the mistress of shaberu ryu.....uh.....never mind. Sorry Ellis? :)

Earl Hartman
15th January 2002, 00:04
Come clean, Threadgill. We know you've got it. And I want to see it.

Chuck Clark
15th January 2002, 00:28
Hey Toby,

I actually have a prescription from my Doctor for 2 ounces of Balvenie (either the single cask 21 year old or the double cask 12 year old) per day. It's good for what ails ya.

Looks like we'll get a chance to get together in Las Vegas in May. I'm looking forward to it.

15th January 2002, 00:55
Guys,

You see....Earl does this Kyudo/Yumi samurai thing where he shoots arrows and stuff. I'm just a wimpy jujutsu guy so I'm kinda scared of arrows and all sorts of flying projectiles. And since I can't do that "chop'em out of the air" technique all the karate people do...well....I do what Earl tells me cause he's .......well.......he's "da man"

So if he says "Come clean, Threadgill. We know you've got it. And I want to see it."

What can I do but meet his demand? I mean...we're talkin my life here.


The Pooptoon!

http://www.shinyokai.com/posts/poopster.jpg


You know. There are just some days when I crack myself up!



BTW, Hey Chuck, Definitely lookin forward to seeing you in Las Vegas. We'll sip some of that Scottish fire water and get in some laughs! It'll be fun! ( We gotta hide from Neil though. He'll drink all the good stuff.)

Tobs

Earl Hartman
15th January 2002, 01:07
Snerrrrrrkkk! Hoist one for me when you see Chuck in Vegas.

Nathan Scott
15th January 2002, 01:11
Darn, I don't have editing privilages in this forum. Oh well.

I still think I've got the best shot at him. We call it "hineri batto" in shinkendo (gohonme).

Remember, nobody says the "P" word. It might be like that Beatlejuice (sp?) thing.

Hey, wait a minute. How come my sword is upside down? HEY! Wait another minute! Why am I the only one with the sword on my left side? I guess Araki ryu, Shinkage ryu and Yanagi ryu have been hiding their secret "opposite/cross draw" technique. We don't have that one.

And the swords over the back??? Oh well, I'll have to have speaks with Mr. Larman.

john mark
15th January 2002, 03:15
Originally posted by Toby Threadgill
The Pooptoon!

http://www.shinyokai.com/posts/poopster.jpg





No, No, No, No, No


Earl has a beard and his hair ain't so dark.

Kolschey
15th January 2002, 14:28
Originally posted by Nathan Scott


Remember, nobody says the "P" word. It might be like that Beatlejuice (sp?) thing.



"He whose name shall not be spoken..."

"You mean.."

"SHHHH!!"

Sorry, Just having a Harry Potter moment here :laugh: