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Juan Perez
26th January 2002, 00:36
Hi all. I am currently over at the USAIC (Fort Benning, GA) on a short PCS training stint and got a hold of the latest US Army Combatives Field Manual draft (on CD-ROM). They have improved vastly on the old manual you have all seen, with a much better thought out system and real pictures (one man in Woodland Camo and the other in Desert Camo BDUs). Has anyone else seen it?

hoshizawa
26th January 2002, 08:03
Yes,
I have seen it, great stuff though it's hard to do most of that in full battle rattle. I know that the Army has chosen nhb styles for reasons other than battle field application. I would go with a program like LINES for the whole army as a start, with this type being done after basic or lines.

Just my little opinion.
Lee Relf

hoshizawa
26th January 2002, 08:10
Almost forgot,

There is a Bujinkan instructor there who was involved with the Gracies back in the late 80's early 90's there at Benning who sat on the board to revise the last manual recently. He is still there in town and teaches at FSU, and I'm sure you are quite familiar with SSG Bauermeister down there if he's still at the new school on post across from the Airborne PX, Anthony's pizza, Olsen hall etc.

Keep going,
Lee Relf

Juan Perez
26th January 2002, 17:09
I noticed the issue witht the nhb portion of the manual. It seems that the Army looking at something that is easier to teach than the more "complicated" movements of past instruction. The concepts of distancing and range determination, as well as timing, are issues that instructors find a hard time imparting in their soldiers, in a short period of time. At least, those are the reasons given to me.

I am thinking of speaking to SSG Bauermeister on perhaps having some other skilled folks come down here and discuss options before the manual comes out. But, knowing how the Army resists change, I'm skeptical. That's not a gig on SSG Bauermeister (as he is open-minded), but a characteristic of the Army overall.

If anyone has any suggestions for the changes they might see fit, let me know. I'll see about voicing them in the proper format to see if anyone down here is receptive to them.

Take care.

popupsoldier
27th January 2002, 02:22
I gather you guys are speaking of the old version as FM 21-150 (http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/21-150/toc.htm)

I found this manual to be quite comprehensive and was surprised it was offered to the public as a 'free-release' (effectively anyway - I mean look at the web page above - you can download it :rolleyes: ).

Any chance anyone knows if the 'newer' version is available? Online?

Tim Oldham :wave:

Juan Perez
27th January 2002, 03:32
Hi,

The newer version will not be available for quite some time, as it is still in draft form. However, all officer students at the Infantry School get a copy of it on CD-ROM (which is how I got mine), and it is a vast improvement on the old one. I guess you'll have to wait 'til it becomes a bonafide FM. Take care.

JUAN PEREZ, JR.
CAPTAIN, US ARMY (ACTIVE)

Jason Carrier
29th January 2002, 21:33
Have you seen or read the new Marine Close combat system. I am really impressed so far with it, and I thin it is much better than the old line system. However it is funny that it is very similar to the first Marine close combat pub "Kill or be killed"

Jason

Juan Perez
29th January 2002, 22:35
Jason,

I have not seen the USMC's version, but, I have some fellow Marine Officers over here with me and will make sure to ask them if they are familiar with it. Thanks for the heads up.

JUAN PEREZ, JR.
CAPTAIN, US ARMY (ACTIVE)

Benjamin Peters
30th January 2002, 05:21
Captain Perez,

Can you please tell me if there is such a thing as the 'Warfighting College'. Apparently a component of military school (?) which teaches theoretical and other concepts on war. Could you please tell me a bit about it - or if an equivalent exists?

Jason Carrier
30th January 2002, 13:07
Benjamin

There are a few Warfighting College out there I can only speak for certian on the Marine one, but I am pretty sure that each branch of service has one. You can now get degree in subjects such as military studies, intelligence and combat arts through schools like AMU. I wish I knew more.

Jason

Juan Perez
30th January 2002, 18:30
Benjamin,

Each branch of service has it's own schooling system that is designed to educate its leadership at all levels. For the officers at senior level (Major and above) there is such a thing as the War College (Army). The National War College is designed to educate senior officers with known potential within their branch of service and it covers the upper levels of war (Strategic, in this case). It covers national and international policy, and how it translates into national strategy (which is the foundation for American military strategy and thus, the operational and tactical applications). The National War College is similar, in scope, to any other acredited civilian post-graduate education. Their focus is not merely theoretical. Some theory is tried and tested, but most of the analysis tends to be historical (to include recent history). Tactics are not really taught as they would have already been mastered at the company level (Officer Basic Course, Captains Career Course, on the job training). The college's make-up is 3/4 military personel and 1/4 civilian. It is a branch of the National Defense University. Hope this helps a bit. Take care,

JUAN PEREZ, JR.
CAPTAIN, US ARMY (ACTIVE)