Christian Meditation?

[gquaresma]

Well I read the article, and I am really not sure what to make of it. I believe that he is right to keep your mind on Christ, that is if you are a Christian of course, which I am. But also as a fallen humanity according to the bible we are unable to do this, without Gods help. I dont think that meditating and trying to focus your mind on something that is intended to bring positive actions to your life and those around you is all together wrong. As a Christian I beleive you should do all to glorify God. And if discipling yourself in meditation helps you do this, then more power to you.

Regards,
Greg Quaresma

[DJM]

Hi there..
I'd like to share my thoughts, after skimming the article, as a non-Christian.
I'm thinking that there is nothing that is not God, however we name him/her/it, and that meditation to look within is just as valid a form of communion with the divine as prayer, or meditation on holy scipture - whatever the religion..
Perhaps not a particularly traditional way of looking at things - but still valid I feel..
Peace,
David

[R A Sosnowski]

Christian Mediatation was declared a heresy by the early Church, and the practice prohibited for the laiety. It was considered only for use by monks.

There have been recent movements, beginning in the 1990's as I recall, involving Buddhist-Christian dialogue. Our first Sang-ha was run by a Roman Catholic priest at an RC retreat house in Hudson, NH, in the 1993-1994 time-frame; we had a guiding teacher from the Kwan-um School of Zen in Cumberland, RI; Sang-ha members included Christians and non-Christians (including my wife and I).

One of the best introductory books that I have read on Zen is written by a Jesuit priest:

Enomiya-Lassalle, Hugo M., 1990. The Practice of Zen Meditation, Thorsons Publishing Group, Wellingborough, Northamptonshire, England. 123 pp.

For the record, let me add that I am not a practicing Catholic (although raised as one), and my wife was raised without any religious affiliation.

The beauty of Zen is that it is compatible with anything. You do not have to be Buddhist to practice Zen (Zen Buddhism is just one of the myriad sects of Buddhism). However, the beauty of Zen is also it's weakness as described in:

Zen at War by Brian (Daizen) A. Victoria, Weatherhill, New York, 1998. ISBN 0-8348-0405-0, paperback. US$19.95. 228 pp.

HTH.

[P Goldsbury]

Originally posted by R A Sosnowski
Christian Mediatation was declared a heresy by the early Church, and the practice prohibited for the laiety. It was considered only for use by monks.

There have been recent movements, beginning in the 1990's as I recall, involving Buddhist-Christian dialogue. Our first Sang-ha was run by a Roman Catholic priest at an RC retreat house in Hudson, NH, in the 1993-1994 time-frame; we had a guiding teacher from the Kwan-um School of Zen in Cumberland, RI; Sang-ha members included Christians and non-Christians (including my wife and I).

One of the best introductory books that I have read on Zen is written by a Jesuit priest:

Enomiya-Lassalle, Hugo M., 1990. The Practice of Zen Meditation, Thorsons Publishing Group, Wellingborough, Northamptonshire, England. 123 pp.

For the record, let me add that I am not a practicing Catholic (although raised as one), and my wife was raised without any religious affiliation.

The beauty of Zen is that it is compatible with anything. You do not have to be Buddhist to practice Zen (Zen Buddhism is just one of the myriad sects of Buddhism). However, the beauty of Zen is also it's weakness as described in:

Zen at War by Brian (Daizen) A. Victoria, Weatherhill, New York, 1998. ISBN 0-8348-0405-0, paperback. US$19.95. 228 pp.

HTH.

Mr Sosnowski,

I think there was a change of heart (& mind) somewhere along the line, because books on Christian meditation have appeared regularly, perhaps since the separation between the eastern and western church. I am thinking of material like "The Cloud of Unknowing", material by the Spanish mystics, Teresa of Avila & John of the Cross, and especially Ignatius of Loyola, whose "Spiritual Exercises" form a very powerful meditation manual.

The dialogue between Christianity and Zen / Buddhism had happened at least as far back as the early 1960s, spurred on by Pope John XXIII and the 2nd Vatical Council. Two names come to mind in this regard, Dechanet and Bede Griffiths. Both were Benedictine monks and Griffiths eventually moved to India, to live out his belief in the validity of the dialogue.

The issue that has never been resolved, in my opinion, is whether Christian meditation is really mental prayer, thus to what extent posture and breathing exercises are 'efficacious' in any sense. Perhaps the issue never will be resolved.

Best regards,

[R A Sosnowski]

Dear Prof. Goldsbury,

Thank you for the details.

Best,

[SBreheney]

In recent times a number of Jesuit priests affiliated with Sofia University have been associated with Zen practice (among them a professor of mine from years ago, Father Robert Kennedy SJ, who's associated with the White Plum Sangha here in the US), and IIRC one of the Dharma successors of Koun Yamada Roshi was a Catholic nun.

For a Catholic perspective on Zen practice and meditation, check out anything by William Johnston ( The Still Point comes to mind, but there are others as he was somewhat prolific). Also, I seem to recall there was at least one book by Robert Aitken Roshi and Brother David Steidl-Rast OSB on the dialogue between Zen and Christianity, but I can't recall the title.

[j-lane]

Dear Prof. Goldsbury:
I was interested in your comments regarding the relationship between Zen and Christianity. I am not Christian (I'm Jewish). By coincidence, I have recently been reading a book called "The Jew in the Lotus," by Rodger Kamenetz, which describes a dialogue between a Jewish delegation and the Dalai Lama. THe book explores possible ancient and modern connections between Tibhettan Budhism and Judaism. Kamenetz also explores Jewish mysticism and meditation in comparison and contrast to Buddhist meditation. It is a fascinating, well written book (Mr. Kamenetz is a well known poet) and possibly of interest to Christians as well.

[Randall Sexton]

Kent, what article are you talking about; apparently it's not there now.


Kent wrote:
Hi,
I'm having a tough time with this site and wondered how others feeling were on this article.
I've tried to get an answer on some of the "anti eastern religion" comments but this Master of TaeKwonDo and Hapkido will not answer my e-mails.

[Joel Simmons]

Aloha,

Yes, the article is not there anymore. The page cannot be loaded.


Regarding Christian meditation:

There has actually been a long tradition of meditation amongst Christians, even since late antiquity. Many works written in the Apophthegmata Patrum (Sayings of the Desert Fathers) are highly internal in nature, regarding the practices that the ascetics prescribe for defeating certain demons and temptations. Many papyri written by these fathers have been discovered throughout Egypt, Palestine and Turkey discussing extreme ascetic practices to condition the body, which, in turn conditions the soul. In Athanasius' Life of Antony (founder of Christian monasticism as it is traditionally practiced), Athanasius describes the three movements of the body that Antony discovered. One movement is that of humans being humans. I.E. - lazy, lustful, proud, etc. Another is the body being controlled by demons and devils where the above are exaggerated even further. The third, is the movement of the body being in accordance with Christ. As in, praying (meditating on Christ) to control the body's urges and desires, which results in a purified body, thus purifying the soul and enabling the person to more readily live a life devoted purely to Christ. If you are praying and asking Christ for something, that is nothing more than an encantation. You are calling on God's name for personal benefit, not glorifying Christ. For the life of me, I cannot remember the name of the Zen master who was given a manuscript of the Lord's Prayer while not knowing what it was, however, this master remarked to his student, "whoever wrote this was truly enlightened." In my own analysis of the prayer, I find it to be a very good example of meditation in Christian ritual.

There are other works written about the specifics of early ascetic practices in Christianity. Evagrius wrote the Praktikos and Chapters on Prayer, a guide for ascetics. Origen, though excommunicated, practically defined Orthodox (and Catholic) cosmology for the last two millennia; clearly laying out why we are separated from God and how to conduct ourselves on Earth to return to God. Some other later writers are: Meister Eckhart, St. Francis, Thomas Merton (wrote extensively on Zen). Of course, I do agree that many of these people were on the verge of heresy, in the eyes of the establishment, or were in fact deemed heretics (Evagrius & Origen).

As for Zen being compatible with anything, I believe that to be a simplification of what Zen is. Zen is more than just a convenient worldview that allows people to do or believe in whatever they choose. Noted Zen poet, Shinkichi Takahashi once scolded Americans who thought that Zen beliefs were a sort of "do-as-you-please" mentality where they could reconcile all their doubts about their strict Protestant upbringing and feel all warm and fuzzy inside (see Triumph of the Sparrow, translated by Lucien Stryk). As noted above, the book by Brian Victoria shows a completely unknown side of the history and thought processes of many famous Zen masters (D.T. Suzuki), which has ruffled some feathers amongst Americans who believed Zen to be their religious "cure-all." I'm not saying that Zen is no-good, I'm saying that Zen is more than something to just be attached to previous beliefs and values. However, popular culture in America seems to think otherwise, as you can trendily purchase your 365 Zen desk calendar and claim to be a Buddhist. ??

The Judaic-Buddhist connection is an interesting subject. There are actually a few archeological artifacts that show some sort of rouge Theravada Buddhist sect settling in the Nile valley and establishing a monastery there. Quite a few statues and other pottery items that just don't fit with the Hellenistic world, but have a eerie resemblence to south Indian and Pakistani Buddhist sculpture of that period have been found throughout the Mediterranean. However, almost all texts, documents or any other evidence that could 'prove' the case are lost. Read a book called "The Original Jesus" and tell me if you still think there could be a link. Comparitive religious studies is like walking on thin ice when you come at it with generalizations. There MAY have been some early religious exchanges between the Hellenistic world and that of the Near East, however, it cannot be proven to the satisfaction of most scholars of religion. Just because ancient cultures traded material goods, does not mean they adopted religious beliefs as well. If any religious connection clearly exists, it is in the Kerala region of India where Nestorian Christians (Syrian Church or Church of the East) settled. The community still exists today. Nestorian and Manichean Christian groups also made their way to Xi'an and as far as Fujien. Chinese texts document mass exterminations of these groups. There are a few temples in western China that look like perfect examples of ancient Taoist architecture, however, when you read the script written on the walls, it recounts the life of Jesus. Oh, and if anyone brings up the subject of Zoroastrianism being the link between Palestine and India or East Asia...take it with a grain of salt.

aloha,
Joel Simmons

[bruceb]

Christian Meditation?

Isn't that merely a description of a person meditating and the religion they prescibe to?

I don't see the problem.

Sitting and thinking, lying under a tree or on the green grass to hash out the thoughts of the day, is this but a lesser form or deep meditation?

The only problem I see is that human beings don't realize how they create religions to deal with emotional or practical problems that their minds are unable to reconcile. The need to have other human beings like yourself, make other human beings conform to the same thoughts you prescibe to ... are the uglyness within prescribed religion being forced on any human being.

The argument of meditation being Buddhist, Christian, Jewish or any other religious sect is an empty one. It is the need of the human being to seek answers and find comfort within knowledge or the firewall of absolute faith that gives that human being balance within a given society.

The goal of all religions, and meditation, is to appy theological and practiced prayer methods to provide that balance. It certainly does not matter what the religion is, so long as the individual is not a danger to himself / herself or society.

Take what you need, where ever you get it from, make it work, and apply it to make a better society with better human beings.

I begin to wonder if some of the modern society has lost sight of this goal by imposing our own religious belief and social morality when trying to educate other human beings to our own society? Although, it would seem, we all could use a little education to attain a higher level of tolerance.

[R A Sosnowski]

Christian Meditation?

Isn't that merely a description of a person meditating and the religion they prescibe to?

I don't see the problem.


At face value, there is none.

However, it is treated by many organizations as a question of dogma, thereby invoking declarations of heresy.

Meditation is experiential - there is no need for an intermediary. Some organized religions in the West have loathed this approach. It upsets the structure of their bureaucratic hierarchies.

If you remove the "need for an intermediary," then what is the role of the clergy? They are supposed to be the interface between the church members and the "divine" [insert your favorite synonym here]; in many cases, this is dogma. The unjustifiable fear of some organized religions is that meditation will put the clergy out of jobs, and remove the religious leaders from power. Viewed from this perspective, the term "Christian Meditation" seems to be an oxymoron.

[bruceb]

What really gets under my skin is being told that everything is set in stone because of the Bible, or Jesus said, or God's word is this or that, when in effect ..... it is interpretation by human beings.

Morons?

Maybe.

Sit and pray silently .... isn't that a form of meditation in most churches?

Having a quiet moment to reflect upon your thoughts and you have a warm drink, cold drink, and let your thoughts drift ... isn't that also a form of meditation?

Get over it.

The means to come to terms with turmoil in the mind, or resolve thoughts the mind can not resolve without having to use the firewall of 'absolute faith' are the means of contemplative thought or degrees of meditative states of mind.

It could just be that the morons are a hell of a lot smarter in not thinking about the depth of answers than their educated counterparts who think so deeply they are the oxymorons they portend to create.

Think about it ... but don't meditate too deeply. We wouldn't want that vegitative state to be mistaken for being a moron.

Here is to Oxymorons! Smart stupid christian meditation people Unite!

[Joel Simmons]

Aloha,

Mr. Sosnowski is correct. At face value, there are no problems. However, when you get into the fineprint of what meditation is according to such and such religious body, that's where the diversion lies.

If you are using a simplified, "new-agey" definition to describe meditation, then yes, almost any religious group could be said to be meditating in some form or another. However, its not that simple, it never is in religion. Traditions that utilize meditation as a means for attaining spiritual progress, such as Buddhism, have wide rifts between sects as to what exactly they are doing when they meditate. Rinzai Zen may give you a koan to ponder, whereas Shingon will have a practitioner visualize and focus upon a certain deity for a particular purpose. The koan is meant to break you out of a "normal" way of thinking about your existence. "What did your face look like before you parents conceived you?" That's a good one. Shingon focuses on the power of mantra and mudra to effect a change in the practitioner. So, if you are meditating with Fudo-Myoo, you will be saying a certain mantra performing a certain mudra, visualizing your interaction with that deity in a certain way to bring about change. Both are meditation, but probably not what most Americans think meditation is supposed to be.

Another example could be prayer in Christianity. Generally, Evangelical Protestant groups utilize prayer to petition God to have mercy upon them for their original sin. Humans are sinners and can only return to God via the mercy of Christ, therefore, praying to God/Christ to show your unwavering devotion should help you out. On the other hand, Orthodox Christianity (Greek and Russian) has no concept of the doctrine of original sin. It is completely rejected. The relationship between humans and God is more of a mystical conundrum than one of sinfulness. Humans (actually it is the Greek "nous" or "intelligences" or "minds") fell from God because they were "lazy" or inattentive to the fact that they were united with God in the first place. The only intelligence that did not fall was Christ or Logos. Hence, Christ has always been the same as God since Christ never became blind to the fact that he was one with God. So, the Logos petitions God the creator to create a physical world in which the fallen "intelligences" or "minds" can regain their connection with God. Hence, the compassion and mercy of Christ/Logos. However, to convince the "minds" in their new bodily form that God truly wants them to return, God sacrifices the only "mind" that remained with him, that of Christ. The Logos then suffers the pain of birth, life and death within the physical realm of Earth. He is resurrected and defeats bodily death, thereby uniting with God once again. There's your Origenist theology as described by Evagrius, lesson in a nutshell. So, for the Orthodox church, prayer is not a means of fearful devotion to this jealous God who somehow decides on a whim who is predestined to return to heaven or burn in hell. It is doing what Jesus taught humans to do in order to live a life that will reveal to them the true nature of their relationship with God/Christ. Of course, Origen and Evagrius were heretics and excommunicated, however, Basil and the two Gregory's picked up their works and re-published them under their own names and everything was peechee. Whew...!

So, yes...relaxing with a cold beer after work, while you ponder the days events may be a form of self assessment or mindfulness, but it would not be meditation per se. Not according to the religious traditions being compared in this thread, at least. We also must be aware of trying to define and describe certain religious practices in terms of the vocabulary with which we are familiar. I think this problem represents a lot of friction amongst religions and scholars of religion (anthropologists as well). What you think meditation is in your Western understanding of the term, may not be at all similar to how religion x,y,z understands the term.

Its late and I'm rambling.