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Darren Laur
28th January 2002, 02:15
Street 101:



Acknowledgements:



In preparing this post, I have attempted to put into writing some of the information that I have gleaned over the years specific to self protection and the “way of the street” In doing so , I had the opportunity to integrate a number of ideas and concepts from others in the field. To say that all of the information in this post was totally mine, would only ignore those people who have made this work possible.

I believe that there is no such thing as the “ultimate” fighting form. Every combative system has its own set of strengths and weaknesses. I believe the secret is to recognize and acknowledge those weaknesses and then go elsewhere to strengthen them. In doing so, there are a number of people who I must thank for the content of this post. Some of the below noted instructors/coaches/teachers I know personally and have trained with, others I only known through their own published works. It is because of these people that I have been able to strengthen my weaknesses and make this post possible:


Albert Carty

Gil Puder

Tony Blauer

Bradley Steiner

Marc MacYoung

Peyton Quinn

Sammy Franco

Richard Dimitri

Geoff Thompson

Jim Grover

Jerry Van Cook






Taking It To The Streets:


The Police:


First of all, I am a police officer and have some knowledge in this topic. Most people believe that the police are the first line of defense. In a perfect world this may be true, but the fact is “YOU” are going to be the first line of defense. It is a fact that most police department are far more “reactive” to crime than “proactive.” Although I would love to see a police officer on every corner, the fact remains that this will never happen. In our world, there are more criminals that there are police officers, this is why we call what we do the “thin blue line”. Police officers understand that if the criminal element was to ban together as one cohesive entity, such as what happened in the L.A. riots after the Rodney King incident, there would be little police could do to regain control in the short term.

It is also a sad fact that unlike 30-40 years ago when most of the criminal element feared the police, today most do not and only see us as an “annoyance” to their criminal activity. Most of the experienced criminals know how not to get caught as well. We in policing usually catch the inexperienced, why?, because the experienced criminals have learned from their mistakes. The next sad thing is that even if the police do catch the criminal, many are soon released.


The Courts:

Even if the criminal is caught red handed committing the crime, the next step is court and the Criminal Justice system, or should I say “The Criminal’s Justice System.” Many criminals see the justice system as an advantage rather than a disadvantage. Why?, because most, including their lawyers, know the ins and outs of the judicial jungle, especially when it comes to a legal technicality or plea bargan. The fact remains that in some countries the criminal has nothing to loose but everything to gain by going to court. In some cases the punishment from the courts, if found guilty, does not deter the criminal from continuing on with their actions. The term “let the punishment fit the crime” seldom exists, but even if convicted to jail, there is a very real chance that the criminal will only have to serve 1/3 of their sentence anyways.


Who is the Street Predator:

So who is the Street Predator? The answer is “anyone”, but the average inmate housed in the Canadian Correctional system for violent crimes is:

- male between the ages of 15-24 years

- 5’9” - 6’0” tall

- 175 – 190 lbs


Most street predators can be split up into two categories; “The Amateur” and “The Professional”


The Amateur:

The amateur is an “ego” based animal who is looking for a fight “just because.” To be preyed upon by the amateur you do not have to be doing anything wrong, you just have to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. This beast is usually very identifiable;

- usually walks with attitude
- elbows pushed away from body
- verbally aggressive and rude to people within a few feet
- confrontations are usually triggered by eye contact


Some of the “Ritualized” combative signs that are apparent from the amateur prior to contact, but not limited to, include:

- splaying arms to express exclamation
- beckoning with finger
- nodding of head, usually accompanies finger beckoning
- bulging eyes
- acquires innate fighting stance
- will close distance during confrontation


The Professional:

The professional street predator is someone who I like to identify as the serial mugger, serial rapist, serial killer. These beasts usually attack for profit and not because they want to fight. These animals are a little harder to identify as they merge into society quite well and usually prey upon targets that have “no” situational awareness. When the professional strikes a target they usually follow a seven step process of target acquisition:



Step #1: victim selection:

- looking for subjects with no situational awareness
- attacks usually occur in sparsely populated locations out the view of witnesses and therefore reduces the chances of being seen heard or caught

Step #2: Victim Stalking:

- Once a target has been identified the professional will usually stalk first
- They are waiting for the time and place that suits their need for privacy and control



Step #3: Victim/Predator Positioning:


- the professional must place themselves in position to either attack by surprise or engage in a “street Interview”
- remember this beast is a lazy animal and does not want to fight but totally overwhelm

The professional will usually use one of five “relative” positioning tactics to set their intended victim up for attack:

1) Closing:

- Most common, walks directly up to target to get as close as they can
- the closer they get the more success he will have in his abilities to overwhelm and control
- this is why the “reaction gap” is so important once you have identified a person as a threat. If the threat has breached the gap when you have told him not to, he has clearly announced that his intentions are not good

2) Cornering/ Trapping:

- this is the second most commonly used tactic
- will want to corner you between himself, you, and any safe exit point


3) Surprise

- Surprise is the primary tactic that an attacker depends upon for full advantage



4) Pincer:

- usually used by two or more criminals
- one circles while the other distracts you
- one attacker follows from behind and while you are focused on them, there is a second attacker just up ahead
- things to be aware of, two people standing across from one another in a narrow space such as a hallway, staircase, or alley

5) Surround:

- most common in “packs” or “swarms”
- one in the pack will distract while the others surround
- instead of a fast swarm, the pack will usually drift towards you so as not to alert you to their intentions


Step #4: Testing the Waters:

- only used if the element of surprise is not available
- here the predator will use one or more “street interviewing tactics” to see if you are a low risk high gain target


A) reasonable request interview:

- will ask you for the time, match, cigarette, spare change, directions
- as you are complying with their request, the attacker moves into a surprise attack position.
- This is a classic “distraction technique”

B) The Distant Interview:

- takes place from a distance
- attacker is assessing your body language and awareness level
- the professional uses this method regularly to identify targets of opportunity
- most criminals are in plain view but because of no “situational awareness” the intended victim fails to recognize the fact that they are there

C) The Escalating Interview:

- usually takes place in a pack situation
- starts off small but builds to the boiling point
- weapons are usually involved
- men are really bad for this because of “ego”


D) the Bully Interview:

- will say things to you such as “ what the fuck are you looking at”
- the attacker hopes that by saying this to you, you will respond in kind thus giving them the reason that they were looking for to engage you either verbally and or physically
- this interview usually starts with the eye glare which then moves to the bully question which then leads to an escalating interview and then goes physical



E) the Bully Interview:

- Continual eye contact made (non-verbal challenge)
- The bully interview: what the fuck are you looking at
- The approach towards you
- The bully question reiterated
- The response from you; usually a verbal challenge
- Escalating interview back and forth
- Actual physical challenge: let’s fucking go right now
- Single syllable replies back and forth
- The actual attack; usually a hooking sucker punch
- During the last few stages prior to actual physical attack, not uncommon to have finger pointing, arm flailing, and slight one or two hand pushes. These are done as an intelligence gathering technique to ascertain your intentions and abilities to fight back




Step #5: The Assesment Stage:

- if after steps 1-4 there is a positive assessment by the professional, they will usually attack using the element of surprise. If there is a negative assessment and the victim appears to be ware of what is going on, the attacker will usually abort their attack and move onto another safe target


Step #6: Using Threats Of Violence:

- If a positive threat assessment has been made by the professional in step #5, it is usually followed by verbl threats which are sometimes aided by a weapon or an accomplice or both
- These threats are very direct and extremely violent in nature using very course language
- The professionals “goal” here is to create a state of “hyper vigilance” to cause you to go into “brain fart” mode. Why ? because the professional understands that the mind guides the body. If they can get you into brain fart mode their in control.
- It is also very common that the attacker will promise not to hurt you if you comply with their requests. Why? They don’t want you to make a scene that increases the risks of them being seen, heard, or caught.




Step #6: the Attack:

- after step #6 the professional now engages
- some of these attacks may be minimal, intended only to freeze you allowing them to take what they want. Most, however, will be frenzied and severe with onw intent, to totally disable or even kill you before you can launch an effective counter attack



Although both the amateur and professional attacker are two different beasts, both will exhibit one or more pre-assaultive signs (Ritualized Combat) that if you know what to look for are real good indicators ( warning bells) to let you know what may be happening:


Ritualized Combat Signs That An Assault May Not Be Imminent But Possible:

- head, neck, shoulders go back
- face is red, twitching, jerking
- lips pushed forward bearing teeth
- breathing is fast and shallow
- sweating
- thousand mile glare
- exaggerated movements
- finger pointing/ head pecking
- totally ignores you
- gives you excessive attention during normal conversation such as direct uninterrupted eye contact
- goes from totally uncooperative to totally cooperative
- acts stoned or drunk
- directs anger towards other items such as tables, chairs, walls


Here create distance, awareness level up.



Ritualized Combat Assault is Imminent:

- face goes from red to white
- lips tighten over teeth
- breathing is fast and shallow
- change of stance, body blades and shoulders drop
- hands closed tight into a fist ( usually autonomic)
- bobbing up and down on feet, or rocking back and forth
- target glance to your body parts
- putting head and chin down (protects eyes and airway)
- stops all movements
- dropping of their center or lowering of body
- shedding cloths ( very common)
- full sentences to one syllable reply


If you see these signs and can not walk or talk your way out, you take FIRST STRIKE and continue with compound attack.



Five tactical Advantages Of The Criminal:

Remember, most attackers have five very real advantages over most of their victims:


Advantage #1: Confidence

- will usually not attack unless he has full confidence in his abilities to win the physical encounter
- Confidence comes from ability to use the tactic of the sucker punch or the the ambush to his full advantage

Advantage #2: Experience

- Experience comes from actual street application rather than a training studio or martial arts school
- Experience comes from real lessons learned on the street. Both good and bad




Advantage #3: Competence:

- Most have one or two techniques that they have mastered to some degree
- This mastery comes from actual application in the real world
- Because of this fact, they know what works most of the time, and what does not
- Their combatives training is learned by doing under “real” street conditions


Advantage #4: Tactics:

- a criminal’s tactics are that of simplicity, the simpler it is the better it will work
- when they do physically attack, it is usually a continuous attack until the intended victim has been knocked out or grounded
- physical attacks are usually very brutal and violent
- usually the criminal uses the advantage of FIRST STRIKE



Advantage #5: Psychological:


- Most people believe that this shit will never happen to me and because of this fact when attacked, go into a state of hyper vigilance which is a huge advantage to the attacker



So Why Do Street Fights Occur:


Pride and Ego reasons are most common. Why?

- a person perceives that their ego has been challenged
- need to save face by fighting the person who they see as their challenger
- this is especially true if the person who’s ego was challenges is with a peer group/gang. It is important when dealing with groups, a challenge to one, is a challenge to all


Alcohol and Drugs:

- The number one contributing factor as to why fights occur is alcohol and or drugs
- I like to call alcohol “liquid courage”
- Both alcohol and drugs override a person’s thought process to the point where reality and fantasy are one in the same. Both remove a person’s common sense factor


Property, Body, Life:


Here the attacker could want specific things from you including:


Property:

money, wallet, credit cards, jewelry, clothing


Body:

Pride and ego assaults, Sexual Assaults, Enjoyment Of A Violent Act


Life:

Self explanatory




Real Fights Are Not Pretty:

- not choreographed like you see on T.V. or in some martial arts schools
- Most are very sloppy, fast, and gross in appearance
- Most are not back and forth occurrences. The first person who gets in the first good neutralizing blow usually wins the fight
- Even a well trained combatant’s technique will usually get very sloppy after the first or second shots are thrown
- This is why in a street fight, “functionality of technique” is far more important that “perfect technique”. If what you do is pretty and perfect but not functional, what good is it going to be in the real world


Most Street Fights Are Over Very Quickly:

- most fights are usually over within the first 5-10 seconds
- Very rare to see a street fight last longer that 10-15 seconds



Most Street Fights Are Decided By A Strike to The Head:

- most street fighters are head hunters
- they understand that the brain is the computer of the body. You knock it out and the body will follow
- this is why in a street fight you “MUST” protect your head and neck


Most Street Fights If Not Over Quickly, Can Involve Grappling And Ground Fighting:

- if the fight is not over quickly, it can end up in a grapple and then go to ground
- Why?, if a person is getting the shit pounded out of them, they will usually want to close the distance in an attempt to smother/control the punches that they are being hit with
- Once grounded, you will usually be shit kicked “curbed” by the attacker, if he is standing, and his friends if any. These kicks are usually targeted for the head and upper body.
- This is why “ballistic” ground fighting techniques are essential for getting back onto your feet as quickly as possible. Unlike the UFC we can NOT spend a lot of time on the ground



The Multiple Opponent Factor:

- Most attackers will have some kind of back up to help them out if they find themselves in trouble
- If you fall into the trap that you are only fighting one person, you will become tunnel locked, and the next thing you will find out is someone is on your back
- Always be aware of the second or third opponent in a street fight
- MUST always be thinking multiples on the street



The Weapon Reality:

- There are more and more fights taking place where a weapon was brought to use before, during, or after the confrontation. Especially knives
- Always be aware and prepared for a weapon in a street fight at anytime




The Unwanted Friend Factor:


- most fights usually have friends and acquaintances looking on from both sides
- these friends will often attempt to separate combatants in an effort to stop the fight
- this is very dangerous to you due to the fact that as your friend is pulling you away, they are tying you up giving an advantage to your attacker
- this can take place before, during, and after a fight as well
- Although your friends may be trying to help you, unless on the same page tactically, they are in fact placing you at a disadvantage
-


The Offensive Mindset:

- more often than not, the combatant who strikes first and maintains the offensive mindset, usually win the fight
- in a street fight do not go defensive, attack the attack, go offensive, you deploy FIRST STRIKE and continue with a compound attack




So there it is, my two cents, I hope you enjoyed it. Again, alot of the credit for this post goes to the Instructors/Teachers/Coaches that I mentioned at the beginning of this post. I would highly recommend that you search out these people, go to their web sites, read their books, and watch their video's. But always remember, give credit where credit is due !!!!!





Strength and Honor

Darren Laur
Integrated Street Combatives
personalprotection@shaw.ca

INFINOO
29th January 2002, 03:32
Darren: Another good post, keep them coming. Have you got a web page?
Gregory Rogalsky
Rogalsky Combatives International

Darren Laur
29th January 2002, 05:37
Gregory:

Sorry, I do not have web site (do you have one). But now that you brought the topic up, I just might look into it.


Strength and Honor

Darren Laur
Integrated Street Combatives
Victoria, BC,
Canada

daniel fields
29th January 2002, 05:44
Darren, thanks again for another good post. And if you get a website up i will look forward to seeing it.

:D

Charlie Kondek
29th January 2002, 13:17
I second (third?) that, Darren. Thanks. I'm actually going to print these out for later reading. (This and other threads.)

So, would you share your knowledge with us about blows to the head? I've been meaning to dig up some good, reliable medical info on exactly what's happening when someone is injured by a fist, foot or object to the head, and how that relates to street fights or martial arts. You know? How does "the computer" work, exactly? What triggers a "system's failure/reboot"?

I'd also be interested to know what some of the tactics are for finishing a ground-fighting encounter quickly and then getting back to one's feet in case of other attackers.

It's interesting that your post about head blows finishing most street encounters flies in the face of what so many MA-ists are preaching these days in the wake of the UFC and grapplers, etc. Whenever I hear that "90% of all fights end up on the ground" quote anymore, I cringe - not necessarily because it isn't true (which I always doubted - I always wondered how they bloody measured that!) but because it's become platitudinal.

This is directed not just at Darren, but everyone here in the CCQ community, whose knowledge is appreciated! Thanks again!

Kit LeBlanc
29th January 2002, 14:45
That was worth its weight in GOLD. Thanks Darren, for putting these into words that make sense and a lot of people can understand.


Charlie,

It is very common to go to fight calls, when things are really serious, and to have someone down and someone else stomping on their head. This is a typical fighting tactic on the part of street fighters...one guy sucker punches the victim or hits him upside the head with a beer bottle or something, he goes down, and the guy and/or his crew go after him with kicks and stomps.

There is also a high likelihood of fatality from stomps to the head. I remember a fight happened in our city where kid got hit with a bottle, his head hit a curb, and then the stomping began.. He had the imprints of shoes on his face. Died in the hospital a few days later and a few of the assailants were convicted of murder.

Remember hearing on the news about the man that got knocked down by some juvenile thugs who then proceeded to knee drop his head repeatedly, counting out loud the number of knee drops? That killed him, too.

Getting stomped, kicked, kneed etc. in the head on the street should be considered a lethal assault.

RE: groundfighting stats. Most people seem to be quoting the LAPD study on that, and that statistic was actually closer to 66%, not 90%. the Gracie's generally say 90% I think it is probably in between these two.

The stats are meaningless without observing the nature of the incidents involved. Remember cops tend to FOCUS on taking people down when involved in a fight with really aggressive resistance. The incidents in which police DID go to the ground in the LAPD study were all of that nature...aggressive resistance with a suspect actively combative against the officer. Cops deal with this most often by taking people to the ground. How often have you heard the refrain "get on the ground" when watching Cops on TV?

Ground control, preferrably from the top position, is absolutely vital to street fighting IF UTILIZED PROPERLY. Cops can use it to control the suspect, civilians should try to stay on top or know how to reverse the bottom position and use a momentary superior position to strike, GET UP, and GET THE HECK OUT!!! Police should do the same if they have LOST control once it goes to the ground.

The UFC, as mentioned above, is NOT street fighting. Too many rules pertaining to a safe fighting area and a relatively safe fight. Weapons are not a factor (this is HUGE..start grappling with (mock)edged weapons and firearms and see how scary it really is).

PRIDE looks a little more like a street fight, as you can soccer kick to the head with an opponent on all fours, you USED to be able to elbow the back of the head from a rear mount (you still can in Brazil), you can stomp an opponent 's head that is on the ground facing up, etc.

But lessons can be learned from watching Mixed Martial Arts. Real fights certainly look more like the UFC than they do kumite, boxing, kickboxing, one step sparring, Krav Maga or kenpo technique drills or jujutsu kata, Judo randori, you name it. I like to say that they look more like sloppy Judo or wrestling with some strikes thrown in.

Watching fellow officers fight in teh field and in force on force training, watching video of real fight footage involving officers and civilians, etc. it is surprising how similar it is, but also how different.

I remember a dash camera video of a female officer that stopped an ex-con and finds dope in his vehicle. She orders him to put his hands on the hood of the patrol car, he does so, she starts talking on the radio, he turns around and WHAM! Knocks her down with a head punch. He then sits on her chest and repeatedly punches her in the face...this is incidentally the best position to force submission in UFC/PRIDE/Vale Tudo. Suspect only stops because his kid is standing there screaming for him to stop. He tries to steal her gun but can't get it out of the security holster.

Some of the arts provide SOME of the aspects that can help in a streetfight, and Mixed Martial Arts (boxing/Muay Thai/Judo/wrestling combined) probably provides the CLOSEST experience to real fighting without the eye gouges, biting, and weapons awareness. They also demonstrate Darren's Real Fight Aren't Pretty principle.

It is interesting to note what is becoming increasingly common in Mixed Martial Arts. Strikers with good enough ground skills to defend themselves and get up from there, or who are able to gain a top control position, limit an opponents escape ability, and pound him unmercifully from there are winning. Pure jujutsu/wrestling guys do not do so well anymore because people know what to expect. Good strikers that don't get caught up in the jujutsu "game" do the most damage in the shortest period of time, which is exactly what you want to do, and be prepared for, on the street.

Charlie Kondek
29th January 2002, 15:17
Thanks, Kit. It's posts like these that keep me coming back. I'm going to have more questions as soon as I digest what's been written so far. One obvious reaction: this sounds like the kind of common sense tactics one developed on the school yards. I haven't been in a fight since I was a teen, and I didn't win 'em all, but all the fights I did win were ones in which I threw the other guy down, pinned him and beat on him til he surrendered. Hey, now that I think of it - all the fights I ever lost were lost that way, too!

Incidentally, I think there's been a trend in MA since the UFC became popular wherein instructors are trying to encourage their students away from striking skills and into grappling. Why is it so frequently the way with MA, where people keep going to extremes?

Kit LeBlanc
29th January 2002, 15:37
Originally posted by Charlie Kondek


Incidentally, I think there's been a trend in MA since the UFC became popular wherein instructors are trying to encourage their students away from striking skills and into grappling. Why is it so frequently the way with MA, where people keep going to extremes?

I don't know that I would say that instructors are trying to encourage people away from striking skills....many ARE trying to add a grappling component. There are grappling articles written by obvious non-grapplers, and even "taekwondo grappling" tapes out. Some of this is to great amusement of the grappling community, since often these tapes and articles show improperly done or totally cheesy grappling moves as "sure fire submissions!"

Those that have trusted their arts, but are smart enough to know they need to adapt grappling methods to WHAT THEY DO seem to be the most successful.

In the early UFC's it almost seemed like people wanted to come in and out-grapple grapplers. Why throw out your finely honed striking or throwing skills to go toe to toe with someone in some skill you don't even really practice? Then again some grapplers came out and wanted to box with kickboxers (mistake).

Nowadays, the wrestlers try to learn enough submissions to recognize them and know how to escape/prevent them, and enough striking to make their superior takedowns and control of positioning most effective. The strikers learn escapes and enough ground position to maximize striking on the ground and get up and out, and to prevent takedowns. Neither tries to out-jujutsu a jujutsu man. Jujutsu people that are doing well are those that are able to adapt to strikers, and to deal with the powerful takedowns and positional advantages wrestlers have, and not to "pull guard" and get trapped under a powerful striker or wrestler.

The same applies to the street. People need to adapt what they do to the environment. Far too many people equate the dojo mat, and a theoretical understanding of
"idealized" violence, with the real world and truly aggressive intent.

That leap cannot necessarily be made.

Margaret Lo
29th January 2002, 17:26
Originally posted by Darren Laur

Step #4: Testing the Waters:

- only used if the element of surprise is not available
- here the predator will use one or more “street interviewing tactics” to see if you are a low risk high gain target

B) The Distant Interview:
- takes place from a distance
- attacker is assessing your body language and awareness level
- the professional uses this method regularly to identify targets of opportunity
- most criminals are in plain view but because of no “situational awareness” the intended victim fails to recognize the fact that they are there

C) The Escalating Interview:

- usually takes place in a pack situation
- starts off small but builds to the boiling point
- weapons are usually involved
- men are really bad for this because of “ego”

E) the Bully Interview:

- Continual eye contact made (non-verbal challenge)
- The bully interview: what the fuck are you looking at
- The approach towards you
- The bully question reiterated
- The response from you; usually a verbal challenge
- Escalating interview back and forth
- Actual physical challenge: let’s fucking go right now
- Single syllable replies back and forth
- The actual attack; usually a hooking sucker punch
- During the last few stages prior to actual physical attack, not uncommon to have finger pointing, arm flailing, and slight one or two hand pushes. These are done as an intelligence gathering technique to ascertain your intentions and abilities to fight back

[/B]

Thank you for this enlightening post. I wonder how the bully interview varies when the target is female?

1) how does the language vary?
2) even if the target is situationally aware is that sufficient to warn off the amateur or pro thug when they are confident of great physical advantage?
3) if situationaly awareness on the part of women is not enough to warn off, what additional factor would warn off the thug?

Also, on actual attacks, do attackers deliver against women the same types of attacks they use on men such as: throw on the ground, stomp on head and kick to body type of blows?

Thanks
M.Lo

meat
29th January 2002, 21:31
Wow, thanx again Darren and Kit for another great post. The jujutsu system i train in only focuses on jujutsu, we don't really do any street awareness type training. Ive always considered myself a realist when it came to street fights, but some of the stuff you guys have written has really scared the crap outta me and given me a wake up call. Could either of you recommend anyone good in Sydney Australia that does street awareness/defense classes?
cheers

Darren Laur
30th January 2002, 05:31
I just want to say thanks to everyone for your reviews of this post, and now I will try to answer some questions that were asked of me


CHARLIE:

I’m not a doctor, so I can’t give you a medical reason why the computer (brain) is knocked out (I know my limitations), but the fact remains that if you can knock it out, the body will follow!!! This is a definite advantage in street combat !!!

Why are most people (including experienced fighters) headhunters? I believe it is instinctually hard wired in our reptilian brain from back in the cave man days. If you look at the animal kingdom, when going in for the kill, most go for the head and neck. I don’t think we are so different when Survival Stress clicks in. Again I have hours upon hours of live video tape footage of actual street fights taking place in the real world, at is amazing to see how many are finished with a strike to the head. This is why I emphasize that one of the most important things you can do in a street fight is to protect your head.


With respect to ground fighting. I teach “ballistic” ground fighting. My goal is to get back onto my feet as fast as I can, I do not want to spend a whole lot of time on the ground for the reasons that I stated in my post, and for the reasons that “Kit” outlined as well !!!!! ( by the way KIT, thanks for your input) If grounded, I will eye gouge, fish hook, rip, tear,spit, bite and squeeze anything that I can get my hands onto (primarily the eyes) REMEMBER, unlike the UFC (where most of these techniques are banned) there are no rules on the street. If I am up against a skilled grappler who has got me in a choke, I will cut my way out with a knife, why?, because if I am rendered unconscious in the street, I would reasonably be in fear of death or serious bodily injury after unconsciousness is attained by my opponent.


With respect to this 90% rule of street fights going to the ground, I would have to agree with KIT about the LAPD statistic. It has been my experience that less that 45% of street fights (not police/badguy encounters) end up on the ground. Infact, when you watch all the video tape footage that I have, only about 15% ended up where both combatants are fighting on the ground. In most of the fights however, the looser ended up on the ground because of a head knockout. (again this is why protecting your head on the street is so important)


MARGARET:

With respect to the bully interview specific to women, if it is a male predator he may say things to you like “nice tits bitch” or “Nice Ass” again hoping that he can obtain a negative response from you to justify his reason for now confronting you. It’s been my experience in 15 yrs of policing that the language doesn’t really change between male and female predators. The fact remains, that if they can get you into a state of hypervigilance by what they are saying to you, they are in control. Why ? because the mind guides the body, and that’s one of the reasons why experienced attackers will use such harsh language. This is also why at my school, we use the same type of language to “desensitize” oneself to this common tactic !!!!! (not very politically correct training, but who cares, because a street confrontation is not very politically correct. Train how you fight, fight how you train)


Now onto your second question; In most cases, awareness will cause a person to pick another target that is easier to prey upon with the primary tactic of surprise. Having said this, don’t be fooled. There are predators out their that will prey upon those people who have “total awareness” because they believe that they do have, as you say, a “greater physical advantage” This is why physical self protection strategies are so important !!!!


Now your third question. It has been my experience that physical attacks on women do not differ much from men.


If you are interested, both my wife and I have written a book on women’s safety called “Total Awareness A Woman’s Safety Book”, which is available on Amazon.com. It has won several awards, and has received some excellent reviews both up here in Canada as well as in the USA. If Amazon doesn’t have any left let me know, I have a few kicking around here.


Strength and Honor

Darren Laur
Integrated Street Combatives
personalprotection@shaw.ca

Charlie Kondek
30th January 2002, 15:08
Thanks for the responses, guys. I'll have to do some more reading on head trauma for the lay person. I'm interested in ways to protect the head and neck and more effective ways of striking. I mean, I've heard of the "knock out punch" but it's shrouded in opinion, conjecture and mythology.

Kit, you wrote that you don't think that some instructors are trying to encourage people away from the grappling arts. I meant that I had observed rhetoric to this effect here and elsewhere, mostly from grapplers who think one wouldn't need to put in the time on the heavy bag and focus gloves to round out one's self as a fighter, but also from strikers. I remember one video of an art and instructor that shall remain nameless. The instructor demonstrating in the video said, I paraphrase, "What's the big deal about ground fighting? I don't think you need it. If someone takes me to the ground, I'm just going to do this (demosntrates) or this (another) and get back up."

I agree with all your comments on cross-training completely, though.

Be interesting to start a separate thread on ballistic ground fighting techniques.

Kit LeBlanc
30th January 2002, 16:01
Originally posted by Charlie Kondek
I remember one video of an art and instructor that shall remain nameless. The instructor demonstrating in the video said, I paraphrase, "What's the big deal about ground fighting? I don't think you need it. If someone takes me to the ground, I'm just going to do this (demosntrates) or this (another) and get back up."



"I don't THINK you need it." Shows us about where he is at in his understanding, doesn't it?

This kind of tripe is generally followed by a demonstration of a technique that would be totally ineffective because the grappler on top, has all the leverage, and can control the guy on the bottom's arms to make the "cure all" response. This is the kind of guy who mimes a no-contact "back knuckle dragon fist" to the top of the grapplers head in training and says "the fight would be over, I just crushed your skull." RIIIIIIGHT.

I also love the guys who try the little pressure point digs and "titty twisters" or even head butts from the bottom against a 200 lb man laying chest to chest on top of you. They are totally ineffectual. Groin grabs are a little better, might buy you some space, but you need to know what to do once that space opens up, and you need to have the timing to take advantage of it.

You do not NEED to be an expert, or even to know very much Brazilian Newaza Judo in real fights (or even in UFC/PRIDE as we are seeing) You DO need to know how to get and maintain good basic positional dominance, some escape strategies from bad spots, and how to effectively strike on the ground from several different positions. Once you can do this, a good striker who has stabilized his position will do very well against someone who is a BETTER ground technician. Watch the Vanderlei Silva vs. Sakuraba match, and the UFC where Tito Ortiz fought Elvis Sinosic...I think it shows that a good striker with good basic ground positioning and escapes can effectively beat a technically better ground technician.

Add the street nasty stuff and you can bring ground hog into a world of hurt. BUT, easier said than done. Most people never get comfortable enough on the ground to make "anti-groundfighting" effective. And most groundfighters are learning that in the street, positional dominance and striking are the way to go rather than hunting for a submission hold.

Tonya Easton
31st January 2002, 22:16
Re: head trauma. Really accurate and interesting points. The saying is true you can fight without an arm or a leg but you have to be concious to fight at all and being able to see helps too. The only thing I didnt' see mentioned is the added factors of drugs and cultural differences. It's gonna be pretty easy to knock me out (5'8 and 110 lb female) vs. a friend of mine ( samoan 250 lb male ). He once told me " If you ever have to fight a samoan take out a leg joint and run, we sometimes don't realize we've been hit". He was a great friend and had some experiance to back up his words. In regards to drugs... some drugs (PCP) will also affect the effectiveness of head hits. Medically speaking when the brain bounces off the sides of the skull it tens to cause people to lose their equilibrium giving the other person the advantage.

Re: difference in women vs. men bullying etc....

Don't forget there are an awful lot of women outthere these days who are vicious and dangerous. I do agree the language used is about the same. It's been my experiance that men who bully women violently usually do so with women they know. ( They already know they can get away with it.) Abused women usually go back and get abused again before (if) they ever leave the situation. Sad but statistically true. I think most fights that women get into as the agressor are because they jump in on their own accord. ( Just a guess on my part).

Very good info above, thanks

Benjamin Peters
31st January 2002, 22:30
Don't forget there are an awful lot of women outthere these days who are vicious and dangerous.

Yes - many women.....:( They're everywhere.....

Kit LeBlanc
31st January 2002, 22:31
Originally posted by Tonya Easton


Re: difference in women vs. men bullying etc....

Don't forget there are an awful lot of women outthere these days who are vicious and dangerous. I do agree the language used is about the same. It's been my experiance that men who bully women violently usually do so with women they know. ( They already know they can get away with it.) Abused women usually go back and get abused again before (if) they ever leave the situation. Sad but statistically true. I think most fights that women get into as the agressor are because they jump in on their own accord. ( Just a guess on my part).

Very good info above, thanks

AMEN to that!!! Women can be nasty and dangerous. Many cops will tell you the WORST fight they have ever been in has been with a woman.

I have personally experienced being turned on by women protecting their felon boyfriends, and it is axiomatic to watch out for the female victim when you brace the male perpetrator of domestic violence. It is common to find female gang members, and the girls will often hold the weapons for the male gang members.

The most bizarre physical confrontation I have had was with a 60-something Korean woman who was very drunk and very nasty, and refused to pay her cab, but also refused to get out of it. I removed her from the back of the cab with an escort hold (she was probably about 5' and weighed not more than 100 lbs) but she went limp and down to the ground and tried kicking me and hooking my legs with hers to take me down!!!

Benjamin Peters
31st January 2002, 22:36
I have personally experienced being turned on by women

Yes - me too :laugh: . Re-phrase ?

Tonya Easton
1st February 2002, 04:30
Very cute Benjamin..... very cute.... :toast: :laugh:

Margaret Lo
1st February 2002, 13:27
Originally posted by Kit LeBlanc


AMEN to that!!! Women can be nasty and dangerous. Many cops will tell you the WORST fight they have ever been in has been with a woman.

The most bizarre physical confrontation I have had was with a 60-something Korean woman who was very drunk and very nasty, and refused to pay her cab, but also refused to get out of it. I removed her from the back of the cab with an escort hold (she was probably about 5' and weighed not more than 100 lbs) but she went limp and down to the ground and tried kicking me and hooking my legs with hers to take me down!!!

Is it something in the kimchee? Koreans and leg techniques again? :laugh: I guess sheer viciousness trumps gender, weight and age.