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Anders Pettersson
24th July 2000, 23:29
Gassho.

I am curious about for what reason all of you started with Shorinji Kempo, and maybe more interesting is to hear why you continue practice.

It could be interesting, and I look forward to hear from all kenshi on this forum on your stories on how and why you started with Shorinji Kempo.

Anders
<A href="htttp://www.shorinji-kempo.org">www.shorinji-kempo.org</A>

Mäki-Kuutti Vesa
25th July 2000, 21:01
Hello Anders! Interresting Question.
We; meaning me and my brothers started in may 1978 Shorinji Kempo at Jyväskylä University in order to coordinate our brotherly fighting,that had been going on for 20 years.
The oldest one was in an army practise, in which he met the
Branch Master. He was doing seiho in a friendly way to a sergeant and broke accidentally two ribbons from his back.
Thats when we thaught "This is our style" and never stopped since.

Gary Dolce
27th July 2000, 21:52
Good question Anders! I hope my answer doesn't sound too much like a shodan test essay. :)

I'm not sure I understand Vesa's story about his first experience with Shorinji Kempo (broken ribs (?) - during seiho??!!), but my first introduction in 1981 also involved seiho. I had gone to watch a class on a day the teacher had chosen to spend the last half of class teaching seiho. There were an odd number of students and I ended up being demonstrated on. How could I not continue in SK after getting a great massage at the first class I went to? :)

But the real reason I returned was that I was very impressed with the attitude of the class. There was none of the arrogant, competitive, "macho-killer" attitude and drill-sargeant style disclipline that I had seen in other groups. Instead it was a group of self-motivated people who were very serious about their practice, but seemed to genuinely enjoy practicing with and helping each other. I was also very impressed that the teacher was clearly not doing this for self-aggrandizement - fees were almost non-existent, the teacher did not expect to be referred to using phony titles or to be treated with excessive deference, etc.

As I continued to practice, I became more and more impressed with the rationality and efficiency of the techniques and with the quality of teaching I was getting. I have a very analytical approach to learning (sometimes too analytical) and I liked the fact that there were rational explanations to everything we did. For a long time, one of my primary motivations was the challenge of learning new techniques and re-thinking old ones.

So, I was originally attracted by the attitude I saw, and then by the techniques themselves. It took a long time, and the help of some great teachers, for me to begin to understand and appreciate how the philosophy of Kongo Zen permeates everything we do in practice - the attitude we bring to practice, the way we practice, even the techniques themselves. Now my answer to the question is that the philosophy of Kongo Zen (at least as I understand it) resonates with me in ways that other philosophies do not. The continuing challenge of learning and practicing, the friendships that have come out of practice, and the gratification I get from teaching are reasons that all seem connected to our underlying philosphy.

Once I joked that I came to practice because I couldn't imagine what I would do if I didn't. A better explantion might be that I can't imagine not doing something I get so much out of.

John McCulloch
28th July 2000, 20:39
Hi Anders,

Gassho,

Why Shorinji Kempo? Well, there were two main reasons...

1. Self-defence

I had looked at several martial arts from a self-defence point of view and felt that, despite their many appealing features, they were often either overtly violent or, on the other hand, ineffective in a practical setting.

Shorinji Kempo really impressed me with its natural use of body movement, its unified system of hard/soft techniques and its calm approach to self-defence. Indeed, Shorinji Kempo appeared truly defensive in nature - no aggressive posturing or "deadly" techniques were exhibited.


2. Philosophy

For several years before I came to the martial arts I had harbored an interest in Buddhism, particularly the Zen school. When I learnt that Shorinji Kempo's philosphy was from the same source I became even more interested.

It still strikes me as distinctive the great emphasis which is placed on philosophy study and zazen in Shorinji Kempo.


Nowadays my main technical interests are exploration of form, e.g. boundaries of the use of taisabaki in technique, and also how to generate power with minimal muscular effort. Capturing "perfect form" and unravelling the mysteries of energy is more to study than one lifetime can permit, so I'll be busy with Shorinji Kempo for a while longer! The more I learn the more I feel like a beginner.

Finally, through Shorinji Kempo I have come to know so many wonderful friends all around the world. It is great to be a member of such a wonderful family.

Steve Williams
28th July 2000, 21:06
Hi All

Gassho

Why did I start, why do I train.
Could be a deep meaningful answer but basically:
I started in '85 after "dabbling" in karate for a short time (liked the training, didn't like the attitude of most people doing it), one of my mates trained at his collage and said "give it a try", just over 15 years later I am still "giving it a try" and am now a branch master, sandan, and encouraging others to "give it a try", what of the friend--he gave up after about a year.
Why do I still train, well aside from the sheer enjoyment of it and the excellence of the techniques, it is as John mentioned "the more I learn,the more I feel like a beginner".
Also having visited Hombu on numerous occasions you really do see what a tremendous influence it can have on so many people for so many good reasons.

Steve

luar
3rd August 2000, 00:18
I have been studying Shorinji for 1.5 weeks and I am loving it.

The reason I chose this style had more to do with the techniques and educataional format than the spirituality.

I was very impress with the use of the hands and evasion techniques. Punches and blocks are never isolated from each other. I also love how at the end of the class how the goho and juho techniques tie in all together thereby making a very comprehensive system to learn from. Overall, I love the quality of the students. They made me feel comfortable, have a very pragmatic approach to this style (New Yorkers are like that), hard working and their attention to helping me succeed was inspiring.

The spirituality aspect is nice and I am open to all sorts of ideas that could make me a better person. But I am the type that questions everything and loves debate. In the long run its what you choose to make of it. I do not expect to find life's answers in here but rather a foundation to derive my own philosophy.

Robert Liljeblad
3rd August 2000, 13:27
Reading throw the messages at this forum makes me glad. It’s really in the spirit of Shorinji Kempo. Friendly and humble but informative and clear.

I started practice Shorinji Kempo as a kid 1985, just eleven years old not really knowing why I started, something kept me there.

Now thinking of what is the reason I continue my practise. It’s the continually development of my self as a kenshi. Learning new techniques and understanding the old ones better and better. For me the are like koans. Just there waiting to be understood.

And watching the result of years of practising. Lots of good friends, keeping fit and understanding some basic philosophy of live. This makes me want to continue practising.

I think the branch masters have a important roll in keeping kenshi. To make sure every kenshi, always feels he or she is developing (to reach there full potential). And maybe at some stage that will include motivating kenshi to teach others and open new branches. But of course the most important thing in keeping kenshi practising is the attitude of each individual kenshi, where no one is more responsible but that single kenshi for there own development.

Tripitaka of AA
21st August 2002, 06:36
It is a common question. It can be difficult to answer honestly, as the reasons for starting Shorinji Kempo may seem shallow and insignificant when compared with the reasons why you continue to train. It also depends a lot on the previous experiences you may have had with other styles. Was it an informed choice or did you just fall into a Shorinji Kempo class by chance.

1) Why did I start?
I had a friend from school who kept missing our Friday night drinking sessions down at the pub, in order to go to a Martial Arts class at the local Community Centre. He enthused about it and made it sound fascinating (yes, he showed me Gyaku Gote, Juji Gote and a close-up view of the carpet:eek: ). I went along to a class, just to watch (I'm not dumb enough to leap before I look) and I was hooked. I couldn't believe the pairs stretching, it looked like sheer torture (that one where the Kenshi sits with the soles of the feet together, while the helpful partner puts hands on the shoulders to take the weight, then stands on the Kenshi's knees forcing them closer to the floor). When I attended the next class in my tracksuit bottoms and a loose T-shirt it was the beginning of a steady addiction that lasted for 5 years. My original reason for starting? I was fascinated by the techniques and I was surprised to find that the class was full of such friendly "normal" people.

2) Why did I continue?
The most amazing thing for me, was the discovery that I could actually get quite good at something physical. I never enjoyed the Sports lessons at school and had pretty much decided that my future lay in the world of professional "Couch Potato". The structured learning process, with techniques growing and developing through the grades enthralled me, while the Howa just seemed to fit with everything that I had worked out for myself so far (at nineteen, I had made a few observations on Life, Kaiso's teachings seemed to bring together some ideas for me in a way that I hadn't experienced from other sources). Friendships within the club, increased physical fitness and self-confidence all combined with a desire to improve myself. I think the subconscious need to impress my Sensei was also a driving force.

3) Why did I stop?
The question that so rarely gets answered, as ex-kenshi often disappear without trace rather than lingering on the fringes. I could dodge it by saying "I've never stopped", but although that feels like the truth, it wouldn't answer the question. In my case, the reason I stopped was that I failed to find the right balance between Home Life (or Real Life, as some might call it) and my Shorinji Kempo career. I allowed the imbalance to continue until it affected my partner enough to make her ill. If I had acted earlier, I would have been able to carry on training, but I failed to judge the situation properly. I had been wearing my "Kempo blinkers", focussing too much on one aspect of my life, ignoring the other important things like job, housing, social life. I stopped training, rather suddenly, in order to devote my attention to those other areas. Much water has passed beneath the bridge since then, but I'm no closer to a return to training. I can't claim to have found the right balance now, but I'm still looking. I still find myself remembering aspects of Kaiso's teachings, and my Sensei's advice, as I go about my daily life and I know that my training in Shorinji Kempo will never leave me.

Just thought I would share that with you;)

tony leith
3rd September 2002, 11:43
Good question - surprisingly hard to answer, because one's reasons for continuing to practice obviously evolve over time.. I started because had wanted to do a martial art since I became aware such activities existed, but hadn't stuck with the couple of varieties of karate I had sampled for very long. I think the 'added extras' which kept me coming back to kempo were 1) the practicality of the techniques and the mode of training - lots of pair form work rather than relentlessly punching and kicking thin air and 2)the philosophical content.
I felt the philosophy was embodied in the training ethos - to be frank when I first started at Glasgow University dojo chinkon and howa were - ahem - not over emphasised, but the fact that this activity was intended to be more than just a fighting system or means of physical exercise still came through.
The variety of techniques and inexhaustibility of the learning opportunities kempo affords was also apparent to me quite early on. Even when I was having one of my 'braindeath' classes where my higher central nervous system seemed to shut down as soon I came into the dojo, I never seemed to go away without having learned something, either about the techniques, or increasingly, about myself. In the latter case, what i learned didn't always please me, but I suppose that's the point of kempo as an instrument of self improvement.

Tony Leith

Steve Williams
3rd September 2002, 19:03
Originally posted by tony leith
I never seemed to go away without having learned something

Like remembering to leave your room key in the door when you leave summer camp........ not leaving it in your pocket..... (and being the only one no less.....). :D ;)







Sorry Tony, was going to phone and bo11ock you... this seemed so much more satisfying...... ;) ;) :p

Kimpatsu
3rd September 2002, 19:42
Originally posted by Steve Williams
Sorry Tony, was going to phone and bo11ock you... this seemed so much more satisfying......
What have I done wrong?

Tripitaka of AA
3rd September 2002, 22:45
Apparently, the vogue for good English Movies that feature slang and street-talk ("Four Weddings & A Funeral", "The Full Monty", "Lock, Stock and 2 Smoking Barrels"), has had an effect on the world recognition of phrases previously found only in specific areas of the UK. Teenagers in California will talk in rhyming slang like genuine Cockneys (probably sounding like Dick Van Dyke in "Mary Poppins").

In this light, I'm curious as to how the World of Shorinji Kempo Online will view Steve Sensei's offer to "Bo11ock" someone ;). After all, when English grammar is consulted, surely the phrase "de-bo11ock" would be more appropriate..... :D


But I digress... my real point is;

You had a Summer Camp? Tell us more, immediately.

tony leith
4th September 2002, 11:59
I don't know if this counts as a contribution to an existing thread. OK, Steve, I freely concede I have the short term memory of a carp (to those who have been curious re. what i was being 'bollocked' for, I sauntered off from the BSKF summer camp venue carrying my room keys, a fact which i discovered about half way back to Glasgow. They've been posted back to the School first class with my profuse apologies.. Mr. Keyhoe, fear not, it was a target specific bollocking rather than to all with our first name)

Anyway, briefly on the summer camp. This was a reminder of why i started kempo, and why I've kept doing it. It's a fun thing to do. Sometimes you have to remember that for all our worthier ambitions, if we didn't enjoy it, then we'd presumably be persisting out of some form of masochism. Both Mizuno Sensei, Aosaka Sensei, and the BSKF Technical committee were present, so the the standard of instruction was phenomenally high, and a good time seemed to be had by all.

It's also an opportunity to renew ties of friendship and comradeship with everybody, important when you're several hundred miles away from most of the rest of the BSKF. I've just about recovered now, though my wrists are still in bits (the 3rd dan syllabus seems to be another qualitative jump in terms of the exqusiste quality of the pain involved - reminds me of the horrors of becoming aquainted with dori waza for the first time). Aosaka Sensei was talking about the benefits of kenmpo comradeship in his own inimitable style in his howa talk - watching his translators is one of the best psectator sports I know.

Also had to take class in Glasgow on Monday, our esteemed branch master being indisputably more broken than me (having had to complete his san dan grading with a dislocated toe). I'm definitely getting old, I remember the days when I would have been positively raring to go after summer camp...

Tony Lith

tony leith
4th September 2002, 12:02
And i can't type either..

Tony Leith (goddammit)

Kimpatsu
4th September 2002, 13:55
And you can't spell my name, either.
Are you sure your name isn't Lethe?

Steve Williams
4th September 2002, 18:03
Originally posted by tony leith
....Aosaka Sensei was talking about the benefits of kenmpo comradeship in his own inimitable style in his howa talk ......

For those who are interested.....

Aosaka sensei said that we should bring our lovers to summer camp.....



(I know that this is taken totally out of context..... but it did cause a laugh at the time...) ;) ;) :D

Tripitaka of AA
4th September 2002, 21:42
I still remember the one from the Gasshuku Summer Camp held at Crystal Palace... where Aosaka Sensei was talking about people who "have a face like a potato", and how they should work on their strengths.... :D

It was one of those Howa where the translators started off with so much enthusiasm, really believing that they would be up to the task. Suffice to say that Mizuno Sensei stepped in to rescue them. Aosaka Sensei sure does have a way with words.

tony leith
5th September 2002, 11:11
Like the classical reference

Tony Leith

tony leith
5th September 2002, 11:20
For those wodering what the hell my last post was about, it was a response to Mr. Kehoe suggesting my surname should be spelt Lethe.

My favourite Aosaka Sensei howa talk was at Sayer's Croft Summer camp a few years back. He opined that the problem with today's society was that women weren't prepared to clean their husbands shoes (his general point was about a lack of respect and consideration). There were sharply draawn breaths all round the room, and Sensei appeared to realise he had said something which was a tad controversial. By way of restoring balance, he then said that husbands should be prepared to paint the ceiling, and proceeded merrily on his way...

Tony Leith

Kimpatsu
5th September 2002, 13:59
The great thing (one of them, anyway) about Shorinji Kempo is that it's the "thinking person's martial art"; Tony Leith got my classic reference immediately. Elsewhere on these boards, I was asked to "stop using $100 words"; to which I replied, "buy a dictionary". No dumbing down in this forum, I see; thus proving (yet again) that the spirit of Kaiso lives on.
BTW, Tony; it wasn't an insult; it was an observation. (In case you're offended.)
PPS: In case he' reading this: Indar Picton-Howell, please get in touch. I can only assume otherwise that you don't want to talk.
Kesshu,

John McCollum
6th September 2002, 00:12
Actually, we ask Tony (LEITH!) to stop using $100 words in pretty much every class.....have you guys ever thought of hooking up? On the way to after-class drinks a while back, he showed some inverted snobbery (insulted my school for making us wear {gasp} uniform) and in the next breath used a phrase like "meandering pedagogues".
:D

Continuing the theme of "my favourite Aosaka Sensei howa", my first and only experience was when I was a wide eyed 4th Kyu, at the 3rd European Taikai in London. Aosaka Sensei gathered us round and started explaining something fairly commonly talked about in Kempo circles. Then he moved to a blackboard and drew something resembling a cow....and a sheep.....and then drew a cirle which encompassed one animal but not the other, as I recall. Facts could be destorted by dodgy memory.

If anyone could shed any light on that howa talk (by virtue of which I gained my Junkenshi rank! :eek: ) I would be forever in their debt.

tony leith
6th September 2002, 13:30
Most people on this forum can slag me off with impunity because they're hundreds if not thousands of miles away. Members of the Glasgow dojo can do it trusting to my forgetting all about it by the time of the next class... (see earlier post re. my memory)

I remember the howa talk John referred to - I seem to recollect that it wasn't helped by being 'simultaneously' translated into about five different European languages. They came up with a solution to this problem at the World tai kai last year by deploying appropriate Sensei to the various language groups, so we English speakers got Mizuno Sensei. Hope this sets a precedent for future international seminars..

Steve Williams
6th September 2002, 17:30
Originally posted by John McCollum
If anyone could shed any light on that howa talk (by virtue of which I gained my Junkenshi rank!

You passed your grading because of a talk about sheep and cows...... :eek:


Wish my grading had been that easy...... ;)