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bdenison
31st January 2002, 00:39
I would like to start a discussion on the topic of the differences and or characteristics that differentiate a modern Goshin-jutsu system from the Traditional Nihon Jujutsu systems.

Goshin-jutsu, which means self-defense in Japanese, is defined as a modern martial art system based on Japanese jujutsu and or Kempo. Frequently these are gendai sogo bujutsu systems or modern composite martial art. These systems have a primary focus on modern day defensive tactics, and less focus on traditional or classical techniques.

I feel there is a very distinct difference between a true Goshin-jutsu system and the modern self-defense or rape defense program offered at many YMCA's or community centers (i.e. Model Muggings, etc). These types of crash courses are very limited in their ability to address wide breadth of situations, and because of their limited time frame (most of these courses are approximately 4 to 8 weeks in length) they are usually only able to present the most basic and fundamental techniques, and even then are not long enough to allow the student to internalize the movements.

A Goshin-jutsu system tends to be more well rounded, and provides a complete system. By complete system I mean that the student is taught a continuous and on-going system that building on itself. It presents situations that address different distances (close, short- range, medium-range, long-range), different levels of aggression (nuisance, violent assault), and different levels of response (control, immobilize, incapacitate, etc). Kihon or basics are taught, such a tai-sabaki (body movement), ukemi (proper method of falling safely), kuzushi (off-balancing), maai (combative distance), etc.

Continued training presents progressively more advanced principles and techniques, throws, joint-locks, immobilizations, pressure points, atemi, etc. The primary surface difference between a Nihon Jujutsu Ryu and a Goshin-jutsu system is the focus on modern attack situations. Examples would be defensive techniques will seated in a chair, hand gun defenses, defenses against mugs, etc. Situational awareness is an element that is addressed in both Nihon Jujutsu and Goshin-jutsu, but it is addressed differently.

In a Nihon Jujutsu Ryu training utilizes Japanese terminology, the primary method of instruction through the use of kata. Students are instructed in the history, culture, and traditions of the ryu. The environment is one of respect and discipline (self-discipline, and not militaristic). Training frequently presents situations with historical significance (i.e. wrist grabs, sword attacks, defenses from seiza to name just a few). "All Nihon Jujutsu Ryu will also have a verifiable history and ryu lineage" (Fabien, 1995). [See Fabien Sensei's article for more detailed information on the distinguishing characteristics of traditional Nihon Jujutsu.]

MarkF
31st January 2002, 14:21
BTW: Welcome to E-Budo, Mr. Denison. Do you wish to be called that, or B. or something else?

It doesn't matter, that much. Mr. Denison is fine if you prefer it.

Kodokan Judo has its own, "verifiable" Kodokan Goshin jutsu no kata. It is a modern kata with defenses against guns, knives, sticks, etc. It was officially added to the curric. in 1958, or that was the date of the first edition of Kodokan Judo with the Goshin jutsu no kata.

Before that, however, the Kodokan Kime no kata (or shinken shobu no kata) had been around nearly from inception. It is the original "self-defense" kata of judo, and Kano Jigoro certainly has lineage to the older kata and practice of randori of jikishin ryu particularly, and kata of kitoryu, tenjin shin'yo ryu, hontai yoshin ryu. Most techniques do come from kito and tenjin shin'yo, but there is even a touch of free-style wrestling.

The differences in these kata, and those of randori no kata, however, are their modern applications. While many consider judo to be a sport (it is, but there is a point to its use in modern times), which is fine, shiai, at the time of its first contests were meant as a nod to the past and an entrance into the present/future.

Since the type of combat normally used by older systems did not apply because of modern weapons and battlefields (bars and streets), not to mention those of the many schools of jujutsu who were viewed as little more than hooligans, starting fights or dojo storming, especially because there was really no outlet to try their technique, shiai was to be a combative sport with winning and losing to be symbolic of the older days. It allowed for all-out fighting (randori) and though the more dangerous technique was reserved for practices in kata only, it still is one of the only methods to test oneself against a resisting partner, and then to come back another day to do so again, without the injury which would be done should all jujutsu technique be allowed. It is also one of the very few styles to be an "all-out, fully resisting" excercise. It is also true that it still has representation to a Japanese Lineage (Kodokan Institute) so I would say it has a good, easy to verify lineage of jujutsu.

Judo does present itself much in the way you describe a true, nihon self-defense system[s], and in the kime no kata it addreses everything from unarmed idori defense to tachiai sword defenses. Though it isn't practiced nearly as much as it used to, a committee gathered technique from various teachers, including Tomiki Kenji, of judo and aikido. These are certainly not as old as some, but since kime no kata has so many basic principles of attack and defense, as does randori even more so, Kodokan goshin jutsu was added.

Many believe that this goshin jutsu to be more of a system than kata, as many have built on it, and it also contains various kata of kime, or similar waza.

This was all built on the koshiki no kata, originally done armoured, and while minor changes were made to accomodate the lack of armour, it is still basically done as it was in kitoryu. In fact, it is sometimes refered to as kitoryu no kata.

Anyway, off the top of my head, that is it for the moment. However, if this does become a topic related to judo, or to older koryu jujutsu, it may belong in one of those forums, but for right now, it is fine where it is.

You fired the first salvo so let's see where it goes.:)

Mark

bdenison
31st January 2002, 15:43
Mark,

Brett is fine, no need for formalities.

I'm familiar with the Goshin-jutsu no kata of Kodokan Judo and the Kime no kata, which I believe was brought from the Kito-ryu.

The discussion I am trying to prompt, and the reason I posted this here and not under the Jujutsu group, is that I would like to start some dialog around the modern Goshin-jutsu systems (not just isolated self-defense kata).

These are the Modern systems that usually use the term "jujutsu," but that have no verifiable lineage back to any of the koryu jujutsu systems.

I am proposing that in order to differentiate true Nihon Jujutsu from their modern namesakes, that the modern systems be referred to as “Goshin-jutsu systems.” The reason I feel this is necessary is that Nihon Jujutsu is a cultural art in Japan, and the more modern systems, regardless of how practical and effective, may be inadvertently misrepresenting themselves.

Again this is just a proposal, and merely intended to help classify the various arts. TO provide a similar example, I feel it is incorrect and confusion to refer to Tae Kwon Do as “Korean Karate.” This is very confusing to someone that is not familiar with the vast distinctions between Tae Kwon Do and Okaniwan or Japanese Karate.

It’s along these lines that I’m making this proposal.

Yamantaka
31st January 2002, 20:36
Originally posted by bdenison
TO provide a similar example, I feel it is incorrect and confusion to refer to Tae Kwon Do as “Korean Karate.” This is very confusing to someone that is not familiar with the vast distinctions between Tae Kwon Do and Okaniwan or Japanese Karate.


YAMANTAKA : Until the 50's, Tang Soo Do, Kong Soo Do, Kwon Bop and a few others were really "KOREAN KARATE", learned in Japan and transplanted to Korea. Later, General CHOI HONG HI, unified all groups under the name TAEKWONDO but, even then, when he wrote his first book (TAEKWONDO, THE ART OF SELF DEFENSE), in 1965, he still included in it the japanese Shotokan Kata (Heian, Tekki, etc...)
In the 70's, the Korean Government, through Woon Yong Kim, began to change Taekwondo to make it different from Karate, creating new kata and founding the World Taekwondo Federation. All mention of karate was forbidden and a whole new history for Taekwondo was invented.
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