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thumpanddump
1st February 2002, 05:50
Opinions guys -

If Tyson were allowed (by himself and insurance companies, boxing councils etc etc), how do you think each of the above mentioned fighters will go against each other ?

George Ricard

Rob Alvelais
1st February 2002, 06:46
Tyson would eat him alive!

:laugh:

Rob

Mike Williams
1st February 2002, 12:07
Pleeeease take this thread to The Underground, if you really want to pursue it.

Cheers,

Mike

PS: Rickson by triangle. ttt. (aaaaagh, I've been corrupted

:D )

MarkF
1st February 2002, 12:55
If this weren't a troll, I'd say Iron Mike, on the ground or standing, but since it is, I can't say that.

So yes, take it to the underground. I'm betting you would get hundreds to reply to the same question, though the first three would answer, the rest would go on a "boxing V. GJJ" thread give.


BTW: This is a Japanese Martial art and culture web discussion. Neither are Japanese bugei, though I thing boxing is the next best event to watch.

You could try the Member Lounge as off-topic posts are welcome there, but you would need to word it so as not to come off as a troll.

(my contribution is this: All ready California, and specifically the LA area has offered the fight at Staples Center in LA proper, or the forum in Inglewood, just outside LA County). Many other offers are coming in, one serious from South Africa, one stating they wouldn't allow Mike in the country (England).

Yamantaka
1st February 2002, 23:35
Originally posted by MarkF
If this weren't a troll, I'd say Iron Mike, on the ground or standing, but since it is, I can't say that.


YAMANTAKA : It has been done before : the famous Mohammed Ali x Antonio Inoki. It was awful : Inoki spent all the fight, stretched on the ground, protecting his body with his legs. Ali moved around unable to place even a punch. Once, he got closer to Inoki and was almost pushed to the ground. All in all, it was a "no-fight"...:smash:
I'd rather not see another "fight" like that again...:rolleyes:
Best

Yamantaka
1st February 2002, 23:37
Originally posted by Yamantaka


YAMANTAKA : It has been done before : the famous Mohammed Ali x Antonio Inoki fight. It was awful : Inoki spent all the fight, stretched on the ground, protecting his body with his legs. Ali moved around unable to place even a punch. Once, he got closer to Inoki and was almost pushed to the ground. All in all, it was a "no-fight"...:smash:
I'd rather not see another "fight" like that again...:rolleyes:
Best

Kit LeBlanc
2nd February 2002, 00:03
Tyson has actually trained some BJJ, so I've heard. Rumor has it he has been considering MMA competition. If this boxing thing keeps going as it is I would not be all that surprised if Tyson switched sports.

Tyson would kill Rickson if he could tag him with some good standing punches. If he was unable to do so and it DID go to the ground, AND Rickson kept a control position, I would have to give it to Rickson.

Rickson is getting a lot of heat for what many people consider to be ducking legitimate fighters and fighting people he has already beaten, or knows he can beat. Everyone is waiting for him to take on the "Gracie Killer" Kazushi Sakuraba. Of course Sakuraba seems more interested in another re-match with Vanderlei Silva.

Aaron Fields
2nd February 2002, 01:40
The real question that needs to be answered, is biting allowed? :laugh: cymbal crash here...........

MarkF
3rd February 2002, 19:53
OK, Aaron, I'll give it the rimshot. It is No-holds Barred, isn't it? dadadump!

Ubaldo,
That was a wrestler V boxing match, Gene LeBell was the ref and only judge, and he called it a draw. "Chopped Chuck" Wepner, the Bayone Bleeder, fought wrestler Andre the Giant on the same night, but from New York. Chuck landed a strong jab to Andre's face, and Andre at about 7'5" didn't take kindly to it. He picked Wepner up and threw him into about the fifth row. Wrestling is rough, even if worked.

Actually, Inoki (somehow that looks wrong) went right to the mat and kicked at Ali's inner-thighs, and when standing, Ali didn't try any serious punching. The proceeds went to charity, or at least Ali's "purse" did.

Now if you want to read a Boxer V. Judoka match, go to Black Belt online, use the search tool in the archives and enter Gene LeBell. To shorten your search, as there are a lot of LeBell articles, add boxing to LeBell and search. It should be the first hit.

Now as Gene is a pro-rassler, you can take it however you want, but it was started by a NY sports writer who wrote an article titled "All Judo Men are Bums." He went on to describe why. Well, since almost everyone in judo was an amateur, Gene spoke up as he had all ready opened a commercial judo dojo. The fight was set against a top ten light-heavy boxer by the name of Milo Savage. The general rules were that there would be, I think five rounds, possibly six, and both men would wear uwagi. The rounds would be three minutes each with a one minute rest period. What wasn't known, was that Savage had gone out and got himself a judo instructor, and as he was allowed to wear gloves, the kind used for hitting the heavy bag, he cut the fingers out of the gloves, put a piece of sharp metal over all ten of his fingers, and had greased up so much that, they thought, he would be impossible to grab so Gene couldn't use his inside judo techniques. Gene was asked if he wanted to call it off when it was obvious Savage had not followed the rules. Gene, of course, said no, "let's do it." While punching full power was allowed, Gene didn't bother with that, but kept parrying the punches, most of which didn't land, but when they did, Gene was obviously bothered by them.

Anyway, we get into the fifth round, Gene finally gets Milo in a corner, throws him with a left side hip throw (I would guess uki-goshi but Gene was a wrestler too, so anyway, who cares?), Savage landed where he was supposed to with that throw, and Gene hung onto his jacket, pulled himself around him and then to his back (Gene facing his back), as he had all ready grabbed the jacket and choked him with okuri eri jime, or a front choke from the rear, until he was ruled unconcious, counted out, and Gene was awarded the match on a KO.

Now that is a boxer V. judoka.:)

If you ever get the chance, see if you can find someone with the film of that fight. It was in 1963, and as a very young judoka, I was just incredibly pleased that he won.

There are fighters and then there are "fighters."

Mark

thumpanddump
3rd February 2002, 21:11
Hi guys -

Some of us are unhappy about where this thread is - so what do I have to do to get it moved? Do I have to re-word it ?

George Ricard

thumpanddump
4th February 2002, 00:12
Tyson has actually trained some BJJ, so I've heard. Rumor has it he has been considering MMA competition. If this boxing thing keeps going as it is I would not be all that surprised if Tyson switched sports.

Kit, U serious??? Who was the training with? Can Any BJJ guys confirm this ?

George.Ricard

MarkF
4th February 2002, 18:36
I don't know about any training Mike Tyson received in BJJ, but Muhammad Ali did in a style of Japanese striking art, probably karate, mainly through his second wife Belinda who was dan graded in something, and who, on the day of the fight against George Foreman (it was held at about 3:00AM to broadcast it to closed circuit locations in the West) found out that her husband had been "seeing" a woman named Veronica Porche (later Ali's third wife) and got into a knock-down, drag-out affair about 90 minutes before he was to fight George Foreman in Kinshasha, Zaire (Now the Democratic Republic of the Congo). Ali's face was plainly marked and scratched when he entered the ring. Whatever his or her training, it had no effect on the outcome of the fight.

The reason stated was to improve his quickly disappearing speed of hand and legs, but he didn't do it for long. Actually, he wasn't the first in doing that. Randall "Tex" Cobb was a kickboxer before he ever got in the ring to fight under the Queensbury rule of boxing.
****

As to moving this thread somewhere else, if you entered through the splash page, or any other page, it is stated that this is a "Japanese Martial Art and Culture" web forum, and neither boxing nor Brazilian Jiu-jitsu are Japanese Martial Arts. The younger Gracies (Rickson perhaps?) copyrighted Gracie Jiu jitsu, thus the old, incorrect manner of spelling "jujutsu." So that is the main reason. BJJ is a fairly common subject here, but mainly in regards to judo or other gendai jujutsu styles.

As can be seen, this thread hasn't been taken as serious, thus the suggestion to move it to the MMA web forum, and the Underground there where a question of "Who would" would probably get a much wider audience and would be well-covered under that site's standards. The standard is different than this one, so this type of question would be taken more seriously.

My second suggestion would be to ask the same question in the "Member's Lounge" forum on this Web site. You will find it near the top in the "general" category. Off-topic threads are pretty much welcome there, and you may find a wider audience. There are many who do BJJ here, but the idea of the Gendai Forum is for post 1868 modern budo of the Japanese way, eg, judo, karate, kendo, aikido, even eclectic styles are OK if they are linked to a Japanese source, though many can be found in the "Bad Budo" forum.

Anyway, Good luck!

Mark

thumpanddump
4th February 2002, 21:10
Hopefully this will work :

Click here for new thread under different category (http://204.95.207.136/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=84527#post84527)

G Ricard

PHILBERT
14th February 2002, 02:11
Didn't the Gracies challenege Tyson a few years ago and Tyson said no?

Scott Rehark

fifthchamber
23rd February 2002, 16:22
Hi all,
I believe that when Tyson was in Japan for the Douglas fight (A beauty!) He specifically asked to meet with someone with knowledge of Japanese Budo.
I think that he met with Gozo Shioda Sensei of Aikido fame (deceased now unfortunately) and had a talk with him about the art and the use of it. I have very few details on this but I am pretty sure that it was covered in one of the 'Fighting arts international' magazines I have seen.
Tyson and Aikido? Yeah...Thats what I thought:smash: Never can judge a book by the way it tears your ear off with its teeth I guess!
Abayo.

Mr. Zero
25th February 2002, 14:41
I saw an interview with Don King on ESPN a few years back in which he briefly mentioned Aikido. My ears pricked up, but by that point King was rambling on about something else and the interviewer had no idea what in the world King was talking about.

I was about to change the channel when King started talking about how all of the great fighters had a "SCHEE", and how this follows the teachings of the Great Bodidharma, and he was getting very excited. The interviewer cut him off short, laughed a bit with his co-anchor, and then they went to a commercial.

I think that there's a little bit about Tyson's visit to the Yoshinkan in the book Angry White Pyjamas. Been a while since I read it, so I could be confusing it with something else.

R. Burke

Mike Williams
25th February 2002, 16:04
Yep, Angry White Pyjamas does mention Tyson's visit to the Yoshinkan Hombu Dojo. IIRC, he was invited to join a class but declined for insurance reasons.

The other night I was watching some late night magazine show on TV and they did a (very brief) feature on Tito Ortiz (the UFC fighter) which showed him hanging with Tyson. So Tyson's interest in other MAs is real.

BTW, the version of this thread in the Members Lounge has a lot more discussion, check it out.

Cheers,

Mike.

:laugh: at Don King and the Great Bodhidharma!!

MarkF
26th February 2002, 08:30
Tyson was also shown hanging with 'rasslers of the WWF. I doubt that was very serious, either. But, ya never know.:eek:

I'm just hoping it doesn't lead to my dojo.;)


Mark