View Full Version : Kaeshi Tsuki
05-21-2002, 11:34 AM
This is for the SMR folk.
What are you thoughts/opinions on the kaeshi tsuki done in Monomi or Kengome?
Specifically, do you do it fast as posible? Are there reasons to do it slowly?
Do you think kaeshi tsuki is a continuum of motion found through out technique (thinking of the gyakute tsuki's, dobarai uchi's through out the kata) or is it something else?
PS: Please don't respond "Ask your sensei". I have. I'm curious as to what other people are thinking. :)
05-23-2002, 11:23 PM
While I am certainly not the most experienced here (by a long shot) here is my offering. Timing depends entirely on what uchidachi's response is. Lately we have been going slightly more free form with several kata, Monomi being among them so what follows is specific for that kata but may generalize to others. After the initial strike uchidachi has basically three options 1) retreat fast, response fast kaeshi tsuki, 2) stay where he is, response wait, you are in the dominant position already do not sacrifice it, 3) drop hand as you strike (roll with the punches so to speak) this can lead to him leaning slightly forward or trying to move in, response initiate kaeshi tsuki and let the forward tip catch under his chin. As shidachi what you do is dictated by uchidachi. Kaeshi tsuki is and is not a continuation of the previous technique. Hope that helps. Once again these views are only mine and I am not as experienced as many in this art.
06-06-2002, 08:58 AM
Will, thanks for the reply.
That's the kind of response I was hoping for. Another way to look at this would be-- does the paired kihon practice distract from and obscure the real object at hand?
06-06-2002, 03:21 PM
I couldn't answer that part as we do very little paired kihon practice. I would tend to think that in the beginning stages paired kihon may be more useful after a while though I think the time may be better spent on other things. Usually we start with solo kihon (one lap of each) then solo kata (3 reps of each kata that we are working that week) then paired kata. During paired kata we typically begin by paying close attention to "standard" timing/distancing, etc. then we move to playing with these things and make the kata free and alive. Finally we return to the standard rendition for the last couple of reps (to make sure we finish with a clean form.
06-06-2002, 05:16 PM
i'm not sure what you mean by "continuum of motion found throughout technique", so i'll refrain from commenting on that. it also seems obvious that both you and Will have already been at the koryu no kata for some time, where i'm just finishing up with seiteigata. i'll throw in a couple of comments that relate to my group's practice of jodo and see where that leads us.
first, i agree with Will that timing is dependent on the interaction between partners. in many cases, tachi initiates an action to which jo responds; it would be presumptuous for jo to move "first" at such points. this affects the flow of certain techniques, such as kaeshi-zuki, in that they aren't performed as a single continuous motion but actually incorporate subtle pauses. i'm not aware of any "standard vs. free timing" distinction. each time i practise, the pace of training changes, but perhaps the ratios of time spent on each action or moment within the kata stay the same.
second, in the year and a half i've been there, my dojo has never practised the sotai kihon, and my teacher doesn't seem much interested in having us learn them. our class typically begins with a round of the tandoku kihon, and then we pair off for kata practice. if there's an odd student out they can do whatever solo practice they like, or my teacher may choose them to train with him for a round of whatever material they're learning.
my teacher's teacher said last year at a godokeikokai that one should avoid putting too much emphasis on kihon practice. to answer your question obliquely, Robert, he suggested that excessive time spent on kihon was better spent on kata training. he went on to say that kihon practice should be short but focussed. repeat each kihon technique four or five times at most, but make every repetition of each technique better than the last. use that short time to become totally aware of any basic faults in posture, weapon handling, etc., and stay determined not to repeat any fundamental errors.
my teacher's teacher is also a big fan of uchikomi, and to be honest, i wished we practised it more in our dojo. sometimes i pair off with other "free hands" during class to work on it and my teacher agrees with that use of our time, assuming that the two students in question have already done a round of kata practice together and would otherwise be standing around waiting for a new face to train with.
06-10-2002, 03:32 PM
The difference in time spent on solo training is probably a funtion of class size. Our typical jodo session is usually only two people, sometimes three, and rarely four. We also have a loose time table and one person (usually me)starts prior to the other person getting there, because of this I do much more solo practice than other classmates. Usually by the time I am finished with the sequence I described my classmate has had time to spend 5-10 minutes on warming up and then we jump to kata. That said I think solo practice is vastly underrated. Most of the good stuff I have discovered (movements, alignments, etc.) have come from solo training and then been applied in partner training.
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