Kenjutsu vs Iaijutsu

[Benjamin Peters]

In your opinion, what are the differences between kenjutsu and iaijutsu?

[Tony Peters]

Kenjutsu = against someone
Iaijutsu = Solo

[gendzwil]

Kenjutsu = a name someone gave to their sword curriculum
Iaijutsu = a name someone gave to their sword curriculum

[Earl Hartman]

Iai starts with the sword in the scabbard. Kenjutsu starts with the sword already out.

[Charlie Kondek]

kenjutsu = a general name for swordsmanship
iaijutsu = a specific subset of swordsmanship, dealing with drawing and attacking

[Ieyasu]

I've also heard of battojutsu; is that just another name for iaijutsu, or something different?

[Soulend]

Batto is what iai is called in some ryu.

[Charles Mahan]

Iai is not necessarily solo and Ken is not necessarily against an live opponent. I have gathered that most Iai curriculums involve some sort of 2 man forms, although they are not taught at all schools. It can also be said that most Ken schools have solo practice forms, although they are not taught at all schools.

Note that the following are general observations and not meant to be a complete description of Iai:

Some would argue that Iai is not so much a subset of Ken as it is a companion. Iai practice covers very specific and frequently oddball situations and how to deal with those situations. Through preparing for oddball and worst case scenarios you learn a series of Kihon(basic principles). Kihon includes stuff like how to properly cut Kirioroshi and Kesa-giri, proper stances, keeping balance, how to deflect an incoming strike, how to thrust, what your eyes should be doing during all this, etc, etc, etc ad nauseum. As the student progresses, it becomes clear how these principles can be applied to more common scenarios. Once the student masters the application of the kihon to any given situation, the student's Iai could then be interpreted as a "complete" system of swordsmanship, rather than a subset. Would it be as rich a system as most Kenjutsu schools? Good question. I'm not qualified to answer it. I'm guessing not, but the longer I practice, the more depth I see in Iai than most non-Iai people give it credit for. Would it be as combat effective? Who knows. Who knows who knows? Who could even figure out which is more combat effective, and does it really matter?

[chrismoses]

Kenjutsu, Iaijutsu and Battojutsu are all just names. My school refers to itself as "Iai-Battojutsu". Most schools that have "batto" in the name tend to practice tamishigiri although "batto" really refers to drawing techniques.

I think part of the problem is trying to label things. With weapon arts I really prefer to just refer to the school. Take Katori Shinto Ryu for example: Is it kenjustsu? No but they have kenjustsu as a part of the curriculum. Is it Iaido? No but they also have that in the curriculum. Ok, how about sojutsu? No, but that too is part of the curriculum. What they are is Katori Shinto Ryu, kenjutsu, iaijutsu, battojutsu... are all specific currriculums within the school.

[gmellis]

Iaijutsu=you'd probably be dead before your sword left the scabbard (but good for learning to handle a sword and strengthening the body)
Kenjutsu=all bets are off (luck + weather + own condition + opponent's condition + geography + training + acclimation to other fighting styles, etc etc)

[Scott Irey]

Iaijutsu = You cut the guy down before he even gets close putting his hand on his sword (because he thought you would kindly wait for him to draw and then react to his technique)

Kenjutsu= You are smart enough to take your sword out long before the iai guy could close the gap. So now you both have your swords out and see who can keep from getting hurt.

[Charlie Kondek]

kendo = you actually start learning about what can and will go wrong, and how fast your opponent is, and how this affects your maai. As opposed to just guessing.

Sorry, couldn't resist. I'm just teasing! (Ducks.)

:D

[Cady Goldfield]

Maybe I'm too much of a neophyte to discern the nuances, but my impression of kenjutsu is that it is a complete methodology for combat with a sword, including methods of drawing it from the scabbard to cut. The system I study certainly includes iai waza in the curriculum.

On a pragmatic note, it seems to me that studying combat methodology without also including the initial drawing and cutting stages, would leave one with an incomplete education. Why would you take one segment of a ryu and study it exclusively, without the rest of the system?

Watching Otake Sensei's tapes, it seems that he has spent as much time perfecting iai waza as he has in the combat methods and strategies for after the sword has been drawn and the first cut made.

It appears that, over time, we have made a mess out of taking bits and pieces of ryu and focusing on them to the exclusion of the other component parts that would make one "complete." That's fine, I guess, since we are not career samurai of the feudal ages. I

It just seems odd that someone who practices only iaijutsu without learning what to do after that initial draw and cut, and another who practices kenjutsu without knowing how to initiate his combat from an undrawn sword, would each consider their arts to be a complete knowledge of how to do battle with a sword.

Just pondering.

[gendzwil]

The problem is that people use all these various terms as if there were only one art for each. That's only true of kendo. For everything else, it's just what somebody called their koryu. While it's true that iai-x is often used to refer to solo kata or techniques originating with the draw, even the most popular schools calling themselves iaido have paired "kenjutsu" kata.

So to answer the original question again, "kenjutsu" is commonly used to refer to a koryu whose main study is sparring and "iaijutsu" is commonly used to refer to a koryu whose main study is solo kata *but* there's a lot of overlap. Case by case as they say.

[Paulo K. Ogino]

Iaijutsu : telepathic response
Kenjutsu : empathic response

:D

[fowlerl]

iaijutsu - starts with sword in saya, ends with one cut and opponent dead
kenjutsu - when one cut is not enough

[dsomers]

In my opinion , by looking at the arts , Iai may have been taught , and practiced inside , by perhaps the Daimyo , because they didnt have much space . Kenjutsu IMO is the battlefield art , as practiced by the Ashigaru . Batto IMO is a newer name for Kenjutsu ; It may have been first used to describe the art taught at the Toyama Millitary Academy . Maybe somone here could clarify that .

David Somers

[Senjojutsu]

Batto IMO is a newer name for Kenjutsu ; It may have been first used to describe the art taught at the Toyama Millitary Academy . Maybe somone here could clarify that .

David, for your clarification, NO.

In 16th century Japan, Hayashizaki Jinsuke Shigenobu synthesized the techniques of drawing and cutting in a single motion and then traveled spreading his art until his death in 1621.

Hayashizaki named his sword style "Shinmei Muso Ryu Batto Jutsu".
His successors renamed the ryu in his honor as "Shin Muso Hayashizaki-Ryu" in the early seventeenth century.

This was the beginning of the Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu and Muso Shinden Ryu branches of Iai-do and Iai-jutsu practiced today.

As written in Gorden Wagner and Donn Draeger "Japanese Swordsmanship" c. 1982, Chapter Four The Background and Development of Iai-do:

"Iaijutsu... may be practiced under other generic names such as iai, iso, iawasu, nuki-ai, rito, giken, batto, batto-jutsu, saya-no-uchi, saya-no-naka, bakken, iai-batto, tsume-ai, nuki-uchi, iai-nuki, za-ai and tachi-ai."

However as an example within the English language, the word greed has replaced the word avarice in modern usage, does each word not refer to the same condition?

Hayashizaki and his followers were not historically alone in their ryu on focusing on this sub-art of sword drawing techniques. Remember it all evolves around the overcoming a tactical disadvantage - a samurai with his sword still in its saya facing opponents. IMO the sword drawing arts gained prominence since in post-1615 Japan large-scale battlefield style confrontations were less of an issue versus more "social setting type" confrontations.

17th century Japanese society was changing, so logically the focus of study amongst the bushi also evolved.

[ghp]

Hi John,

I agree with you 100% -- Batto is the ancient term and says what it means: "Draw Sword." Iai is a much more modern name, being, I believe, less than 200 years old. The earliest date I have personally found is from the 1925 Kenjutsu Kyohan in which it describes Hasegawa Ryu Iai, Omori Ryu Iai, and Toyama Ryu Iai. I am fairly sure I've heard of earlier usages, so -- someone please let me know if they can give me an earlier use of the term (I'd like scholastic citation for my files).

Even Nakayama Hakudo -- who championed the use of the term "iai" --wrote "battojutsu" when describing his system in the early 1930s. He used the kanji "batto", but superscribed "iai" in hiragana to "assist" the reading/meaning of the word. I don't have that particular eimeiroku [student register] page here -- but anyone is free to email me at my office for a jpg and translation (I don't own the original, I copied a photo from a Japanese magazine).

By the bye, Hayashizake's successor was Tamiya Heibei Narimasa ["Shigemasa" according to another source]. Tamiya later established his own system and called it "Batto Tamiya Ryu" [see Warner & Draeger, Japanese Swordsmanship(New York: Weatherhill, 1982)]

Regards,
Guy

[Rennis]

Hello Guy,

I have photocopies of several densho and mokuroku dating from the late 1600's onwards which make use of the the term "iai". Most of them date from the mid to later 1700's, but the oldest one I have a copy of is a Katayama ryu mokuroku supposedly dating from a bit before 1650.

Best regards,

Rennis Buchner

[ghp]

Thanks Rennis! I was almost certain that useage was old -- but before now, I've not known for sure. Thanks for the romaji example.

I really appreciate your help.

You're still in Akita? Can't you get out with good behavior? Meik, Stanley, and I got away .... :D

Regards,
Guy