iaido history in Britain

[Chidokan]

I have been asked to contribute to an article on the history of iaido in Britain for kendo world magazine. Trevor Jones will be 'doing' the BKA, and myself Eikoku Roshukai. I know there are other groups about, having been to a seminar at Birmingham which had sensei from ZNIR some time ago. Also I hear of people who have been over to Japan and practise when they come back without joining one of the 'mainstream' associations. As I am no authority on any of the others and the article is to be as well balanced as possible, would anyone else like to contribute some information?

[ghp]

Hi Tim (sorry, didn't catch your last name).

If you wish to consider Toyama Ryu and Nakamura Ryu, you could contact John Evans in London. I'm not certain, but I think he's about 6th dan in the International Battodo Federation.

Ron Zediker, a US school counselor working 35 northwest of London, is also affiliated with Nakamura sensei and has been in Old Blighty for about 2 years. I knew Ron in Japan where he worked for 13 years; so, I suppose he'll be in England for a while :D Ron was just promoted to 6th dan a few months ago when he visited Japan to train.

But then again, perhaps you may not wish to contact them; Toyama Ryu is not viewed favorably by the "mainstream" organizations :D

Regards,
Guy

[samuel-t]

Hi,

I think that Ishido-sensei is quite highly regarded in Britain (and Europe as whole). He's coming to the ZNKR Jodo/Iaido seminar in Amsterdam, Netherlands, in early August (don't know exactly when the Jodo part of the seminar is, but the Iaido part is from August 7th to 9th.

BW
/Samuel

[Joseph Svinth]

You might also check with Richard Bowen of the Budokwai, as during the 1950s, the Budokwai regularly included kendo and iaido during its annual demonstrations. The complete set of Budokwai Quarterly Bulletins is available for reading at the British Library.

[hyaku]

Originally posted by samuel-t
Hi,

I think that Ishido-sensei is quite highly regarded in Britain (and Europe as whole). He's coming to the ZNKR Jodo/Iaido seminar in Amsterdam, Netherlands, in early August (don't know exactly when the Jodo part of the seminar is, but the Iaido part is from August 7th to 9th.
............................

How much does he want this time?

Hyakutake Colin

[Chidokan]

ooooooooooooohhh! thats a bit naughty, mate!!!:D

I know Ishido sensei, he will be covered by Trevor on his section on the BKA.
Can the people who replied either contact me directly or ask the people they have named to write a few lines and put them up on the board?
This WILL be a balanced article, just ask for a straight history, no sniping at other groups etc. No doubt there will be 'cowboys' out there with demigod status (in their own minds) but the plan is to be fair and open minded.

Is the Budokwai still going? could a (ex?)member please give some modern history?

Toyama ryu will be included.

Let the shots take place on this board instead...

Tim Hamilton

[samuel-t]

Originally posted by hyaku
How much does he want this time?

No idea. The iaido seminar costs 100 Euro for three days. And there are 12 high graded japanese sensei coming, so I think that it will be value for the money.

/Samuel

[SteveJ]

Chidokan

I'd suggest a word with Vic Cook of Brighton, great guy, senior in BKR (6th Dan I think - but I may be out of date), and teaches Iai and Jodo.

Best wishes

Steve John

[Joseph Svinth]

The Budokwai's website is at http://www.budokwai.org .

Bowen does not believe in e-mail or the Internet. However, he lives in Teddington, in Middlesex, and I assume he's in the book. But if not, drop me a PM or e-mail, and I'll give you an address.

[hyaku]

Originally posted by Chidokan
[B]ooooooooooooohhh! thats a bit naughty, mate!!!:D

Tim Hamilton

.............

Sorry mate.;)

Sounds like it will be a really good article.

Hyakutake Colin

[ScottUK]

Originally posted by SteveJ
I'd suggest a word with Vic Cook of Brighton, great guy, senior in BKR (6th Dan I think - but I may be out of date), and teaches Iai and Jodo.Updates:

Vic Cooke is now 7Dan iai.
UK BKA Summer Seminar is 18th - 23rd Aug, Birmingham. 3 days koryu iai or seitei jo, 3 days seitei iai.

Scott

[Chidokan]

BKA and BKR... same thing, know Vic. Also covered by Trevor Jones 7th dan BKA(R).
Come on lads, must be some more about than just Roald Knutsens group around Brighton, BKA/R, and the old jiujitsu club!
Own up if you know your dad/grandad did iaido in Japan or England before the war! There must be somebody!
In theory there should be more people about as Japan was added to the 'tour' of the far east by wealthy Europeans, evidence of which can be found in private collections in the U.K. and Ireland in the form of swords and armour. Knowing the interest in most things warlike us islanders have, surely someone must have 'had a go'...

Tim Hamilton

[ScottUK]

Tim,

At Seni 2002 (NEC), I spoke to Ross Iannoccaro briefly about his iai training - Enshin Ryu (of which I know nothing!) - so maybe he'll be of assistance to you. He can be reached at:

info@jujutsukumite.co.uk

Best wishes,

Scott

[Joseph Svinth]

Budokwai Quarterly Bulletin, 7:2 (July 1951), has an article by I.O. Morris called "Kendo." It is how-to, not history. Morris is probably still alive (I doubt he would be much past his late 70s), so he would be worth tracking down. Also, during the late 1950s, somebody writing as "Musashi" wrote a number of articles on swordsmanship, etc., for "Judo." Alan Menzies-Cornwall was editor, and he could probably tell you who "Musashi" was, and what his experience was. In Paris, Henri Plee might have some ideas, too.

Meanwhile, don't forget that FJ Norman was studying gekken in Japan ca. 1905. Dragon Times 11 had an extract from his book. In addition, the Prince of Wales witnessed a kendo exhibition in Yokohama in April 1922.

In Britain, undoubtedly there were various music hall demonstrations ca. 1904-1905, and perhaps even as late as 1914

Probably there were some demonstrations ca. 1905, too, and maybe as late as 1911-1913, when the battleship Kongo was being built by Vickers-Armstrong at Barrow. (Kongo was the last Japanese battleship to be built in Britain. About the same time, the IJN quit having commands given in English, too.)

Meanwhile, back to the Budokwai. Koizumi started kendo when he was 12, and so far as I know, kendo was attempted as early as 1918. See http://www.budokwai.org/history_vol_i.htm#Early%20Interests%20-%20Knighthood%20Society . Farther down in the same article, you'll see that the actor, Hayakawa Sessue, gave a kendo demonstration at another annual display. (In our time, Hayakawa is best remembered as the Japanese commander in "Bridge over the River Kwai," but he was a very popular actor in Hollywood in his day.)

I would guess that there simply were not enough people interested in kendo in those days to justify the expenses.

[PeteBoyes]

First an apology - I do Judo and know nothing about the sword arts (not that that has stopped a number of other posters on various threads ;) )

When I was a mere boy I used to watch Kendo demonstrations by Tomio Otani (son of one of the founders of the British Judo Council). Kenshiro Abbe was the other founder and had a grounding in other arts including especially Aikido.

I found this quote on a webpage than mentions Abbe Sensei....
Abbe Sensei was the Master who introduced Kendo, Aikido, Karate, Kyudo, Jukendo, Iaido, Yarido and Naginatado to Europe.

Here's the webpage: http://www.seishin-ryu.ndirect.co.uk/tbc.htm

Hope it's of some use.

[Chidokan]

Thanks for the link , its quite informative. Thanks also to Ron and Betty on the Toyama group. Now all I need is for some more people to come forward with links to the all japan iaido association....Volunteers anyone?

Tim Hamilton

[Stuart Shirreff]

Hello Tim,

Why not try ALan Tattersall he is 8th dan Hanshi jujitsu for the Dai Nippon Butoku Kai and acts as International Director, he is also at least 4th Dan Iaido, couple of years since I saw him last but I am certain he is a mind of useful information and he possibly was practicing before the war (only joking).

www.neglobal.co.uk/ukjjai

Regards

Stuart Shirreff

[Chidokan]

I know Rochdale and Alan very well, but unfortunately his iaido also goes back only as far as the BKA, which is already covered. Didnt realise he was still training, last time I saw him he was recovering from his heart op...

Tim Hamilton

[ScottUK]

Hiya Tim,

Any luck with the 'History of Iaido in Britain' article? Did it ever get published?

Scott

[Chidokan]

I sent what I had to Trevor Jones, he was going to add the BKA bit in. I presume it will turn up in kendo world sometime, although i dont know when...:rolleyes:

[ScottUK]

THREE YEARS LATER.... did the article ever get published, Timmy? :)

[Chidokan]

still arguing who started it.... :rolleyes: its between three people, all members of the old BKR...maybe I should just admit defeat on this one.... :)

[100110]

Don't suppose you could tell us who they are :D

[Chidokan]

No, coz Scottykins called me Timmy. And I am sulking. :D I'll let the two oldies who are still alive finish the argument then make a definitive announcement. I am also hoping to see Vic Cooke for an 'unbiased' opinion to help me clarify a little and take the personal sides out the argument as it were.. :rolleyes:
Surprised Trev didnt do the article base on what we had though, it may have provoked some further discussion over here....

[ScottUK]

Timmy,

Please accept my apologies. I'm sorry - it won't happen again.

(today)

Why don't you drop Vic sensei a line and invite him here? Maybe he could post some of what he knows on the forum?

[Chidokan]

I will arrange a meeting with a bit of luck down in Southampton. HOWEVER!!! a chance visit to my MA book buddy (who just happens to have the largest private collection of MA books in England) reveals a poster dated 1903 advertising an exhibition of japanese swordsmanship. This predates the London Budokwai by quite a bit... as well as FJ Norman...also a note of interest came from our discussion. The Japanese Navy had major works on in Middlesborough between 1880's to just before WW2, and the locals were witness to 'strange exercises' at the shipyards... Note that most of the japanese guys were from Okinawa, so is this the first karate dojo in the UK? :) There was a large japanese community in Boro until WW2, so I think its time for me to peruse the local papers for MA club adverts...