Supplemental Technical/Technique Manuals

[Gogita9x]

Well I have a very strange question.

I study Jujitsu in a small dojo in TN. My sensei does not teach many of the atemi waza, and few of the vital strikeable points of kyushu waza. He basically trains us well on joint locks, throws, chokes and immobilization though.
Could any of you let me know where to find some good (technique full)technically dense technique manuals, books, or writings on more of the atemi and kyushu waza techniques. I have studied research on these and I think they would be an integral part of my training regimen. Or could any of you direct me to someone who would have this information on such writings.

I would be extremely grateful for the info.

Kai Boyd

[Nathan Scott]

I don't know of many, but some good resources I use are the translations of "Budo" and "Budo Renshu", which are pre-war "Aikibudo" manuals by the founder of Aikido.

They aren't all that easy to follow, though, if you don't have much experience.

> or writings on more of the atemi and kyushu waza techniques.

It is hard to find any authoratative writings on methods of Atemi, because they are dangerous and could be easily misused. I'm not sure what the Kyushu waza are, but I there was at pre-war student of Ueshiba Sensei that lived in Kyushu that he used to visit occaisonally.

Your best bet is to go to a qualified instructor as regular as possible and take your own notes.

Regards,

[George Kohler]

hehehe

Nathan, I think he meant Kyusho instead of Kyushu :)

[Gogita9x]

Well George than you for correcting me.. it is Kyusho.
Lolz

Nathan .. where would I find these translations .. would I have to import them , or what? I mean how would I go about getting these translations , if you would be so kind.

And I would not be able to travel right now to find a extremely qualified sensei because of my job.

Funny though I progressed from shotokan to jeet kune do and jujitsu just seems more effective and efficient in terms of effort.

Later Nathan and George.

Kai Boyd

[AAC]

Well, try Amazon.com for a start. "Budo Renshu" was published in english under the name "Budo Training in Aikido" by Japan Publications (ISBN 0-87040-982-4) "Budo" -Teachings of the Founder of Aikido- was published by Kodansha (ISBN 4-7700-1532-1)

Now unless you've a interest in Aikido I'd say save your money. You'll be making a error in "TRYING" to learn atemi this way. The use of atemi in relation to different arts are unique. One good technique learned has more value.

Daito Ryu Takumakai, had or still has a rep. in the state of TN. From what I've seen, they have very good atemiwaza as it relates to "jujutsu & aikijujutsu".

[Nathan Scott]

Hello,

Well, try Amazon.com for a start. "Budo Renshu" was published in english under the name "Budo Training in Aikido" by Japan Publications (ISBN 0-87040-982-4) "Budo" -Teachings of the Founder of Aikido- was published by Kodansha (ISBN 4-7700-1532-1)

The "Budo - teachings of the founder of Aikido" book is the translation by John Stevens. Saito Sensei and Mr. Stanley Pranin (Aikido Journal) have recently released a new translation with technical explanations as well (matching video too).

They both have their strengths and weakness', so I opted to pick up both.

This Aikido Journal version can be found at:

http://www.aikidojournal.com/catalog/category.asp?category=

Now unless you've a interest in Aikido I'd say save your money. You'll be making a error in "TRYING" to learn atemi this way. The use of atemi in relation to different arts are unique. One good technique learned has more value.

The tecniques from these books were referred to as Aikibudo at that time, and serve as the foundation for modern Aikido. Personally, I find them to be solid jujutsu techniques, as opposed to what we think of now as "Aikido".

I definitely agree that none of these references were designed to be instructional. They were recorded with the intention of being supplements to qualified training.

But, there is atemi on the vast majority of the techniques in these references.

I also agree that the use of atemi will vary between arts, and that learning one good technique is far more beneficial than a whole lot of sloppy ones. Good points.

Daito Ryu Takumakai, had or still has a rep. in the state of TN. From what I've seen, they have very good atemiwaza as it relates to "jujutsu & aikijujutsu".

Sounds good to me too.

Regards,

[Gogita9x]

Well I will look up the Daito Ryu representative and also purchase the manuals as well. Sounds like a good start to me.
I am very thankful to you guys seems like you know a lot and I want to learn those because atemi waza and pressure points would be good defensively(thus going with the point that one technique learned well is better than several, JKD has this philosophy too)
... a friend recommended this page as a good source of info and its true. Well if you guys come up with more info I would be interested to know.

Domo arigato again


Kai Boyd

[Gogita9x]

Hey Guys I know about atemiwaza in relation to jujutsu, aikido, and aikijujutsu , but those are the only ones I have researched .. JKD does not have any as far as I know ...
and my shotokan sensei did not refer to them.. so what other arts could I train in that would give me a good background in atemiwaza?

[Menker]

The recent thread on Omiya's book (http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=6256) inspired me to assemble a bibliography of English-language books about aikijujutsu. It took me all of 2 minutes. Here is the list I came up with (alpha by title):

Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu: Conversations with the Daito-Ryu Masters (http://www.aikidojournal.com/new/catalog/productdetails.asp?id=DTR) by Stanley Pranin

Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu Hiden Mokuroku: Ikkajo (http://www.aikidojournal.com/new/catalog/productdetails.asp?id=KONDO01) by Katsuyuki Kondo

The Hidden Roots of Aikido: Aiki Jujutsu Daitoryu (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/4770023278) Shiro Omiya

Samurai Aikijutsu (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0946062226) Toshiro Obata

Unlocking the Secrets of Aiki-jujutsu (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1570281211) by H.E. Davey

Any others?

[Nathan Scott]

Good luck finding a copy of the Soden. It seems to be the Takumakai's most closely guarded secret - though they do have other private publications as well.

I've not seen any translations for sale on e-bay (not that I'd know where to look). If anyone comes across them - before or after the auction is completed - please post info here. Sounds interesting.

The list of English language books listed in the first post is pretty much it (value judgements aside), aside from the numerous articles published in Aikido Journal. I have a 2.5 inch binder full of double sided copies of these articles, to give you an idea of how many there are/were.

Regardless of what value some of you may place on "Samurai Aikijutsu" (by Toshishiro Obata, not Toshiro), it is probably the most comprehensive and reasonably accurate historical overview of Daito ryu that I've found in English to date. Of course, it is also long out of print, so if you don't already have a copy, it will be hard to find. I will be using this work, among others, to write a history that will be published at aiki-buken.com at some point.

Happy Holidays,

[Walker]

A chart of where to hit used to be pretty standard issue in jujutsu texts. I guess not so much any more. If your teacher isn’t teaching it I guess you will have to figure out where and when to strike within your forms on your own.

One handy reference on the subject is:
Self Defense Nerve Centers & Pressure Points for Karate, Jujitsu & Atemi-waza by Bruce Tegner.

[Nathan Scott]

Hi Doug,

You know, I actually trashed that book some time ago somewhere in this forum (can't find it now), but I busted it out afterwards and was surprised to find that there were some good things in there. A few whacky things, but the books is not a hoaky as I remembered.

Regards,

[Menker]

Originally posted by Menker
The recent thread on Omiya's book (http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=6256) inspired me to assemble a bibliography of English-language books about aikijujutsu. It took me all of 2 minutes. Here is the list I came up with (alpha by title):

Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu: Conversations with the Daito-Ryu Masters (http://www.aikidojournal.com/new/catalog/productdetails.asp?id=DTR) by Stanley Pranin

Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu Hiden Mokuroku: Ikkajo (http://www.aikidojournal.com/new/catalog/productdetails.asp?id=KONDO01) by Katsuyuki Kondo

The Hidden Roots of Aikido: Aiki Jujutsu Daitoryu (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/4770023278) Shiro Omiya

Samurai Aikijutsu (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0946062226) Toshishiro Obata

Unlocking the Secrets of Aiki-jujutsu (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1570281211) by H.E. Davey

Any others? FWIW, here are two more English-language titles (actually both titles have English & Japanese text) to add to this opinion-free, value-judgments-aside list:

Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu (http://www.buyubooks.com/product_details.cfm?id=10478) by Okamoto Seigo.

Daito Ryu Aiki no Hiketsu (The Secret of Daito Ryu Aiki) (http://www.buyubooks.com/product_details.cfm?id=10224) by Sogawa Kazuoki.

Bill

(Disclaimer: Just as this list is not an endorsement of any of these books, hyperlinks above and in my previous post are provided only for more information about the books and should not be construed as an endorsement of the site(s) selling the books. Thank you.)

[Nathan Scott]

Daito Ryu Aiki no Hiketsu (The Secret of Daito Ryu Aiki) by Sogawa Kazuoki.

Mr. Menker,

While I appreciate the spirit with which you posted this title, I'd like to offer my observations. Besides that it is by Sogawa, the "Soke" of the infamous Saigo-ha DR, I'd also point out that the English translations are very limited, and what is translated is translated pretty badly. Personally, I wouldn't waste my time or money on this book.

Regards,

[Menker]

Originally posted by Nathan Scott
While I appreciate the spirit with which you posted this title, I'd like to offer my observations.I somehow suspected you might. ;)

Besides that it is by Sogawa, the "Soke" of the infamous Saigo-ha DR, I'd also point out that the English translations are very limited, and what is translated is translated pretty badly. Personally, I wouldn't waste my time or money on this book.I concur wholeheartedly.

Now I've done it — I've gone and ruined my 'opinion-free, value-judgments-aside' bibliography. :(

;)

Bill