in search of information and help.....

[Rog]

Greetings, and Happy Holidays to all - from another "newbie".

Having recently come into possession of what is believed to be an age old Katana,
I am looking for information in my attempt to authenticate this sword.

It has a kanji inscription on the tang; which, the first person translated it as:
"Ise no kama Fujiwara Nobusada"; and,
places it as being made during the Edo era

Another person translated it as:
"Boshu ju Fujiwara Nobusada"; and,
states that he is listed in Fujishiro as working in the Kanbun era (1661)
that and he was a chusaku rated smith.

While a third person states:
"The blade is genuine, and was made in the Mino province".

Yet another referred me to this web site:
http://www.aoi-art.ab.psiweb.com/hanbaikousaku/hyoukakanti.html
and, I am interested to find out if anyone knows of this entity and its credibility.

Photo's of the kanji and katana are available for viewing at:
http://www.picturetrail.com
Look for: "Visit Album"
Enter Member Name: r0n1n
Click on: "Go"
Then click on: "Katana"
Album Password = Katana
Now click on either: "Click on a Picture"
or: "Slide Show"
- - - your choice!!!

Any and all info regarding this signature/sword is greatly appreciated.

"Domo Arigato"
Rog :confused:

[Rog]

Hmmm, so many views and not a single response. Gosh, gulp, golly-gee, am I in the wrong section perhaps; or, have I some how offended someone/everyone here with the content of inquiry.
Being the "newbie" that I am (oh how painfully true this is), I know just enough about this weapon - to not face the pointed end. Aside from that, I have no experience or background in Iaido or any form of swordsmanship (well, that's not entirely true - as kids we used to play "stretch" with jackknives").
As to my attempt to research this blades history / owner / sowrdsmith, I am at ground zero and trying to climb (not dig) my way towards learning some of the history involved with this magnificent sword.
Any help in sending me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated - - -
(hopefully that does not include, pointing me towards the exit).....
"Thanks", once again!

[Shoki]

Rog,

Most people that I have experienced in the Kendo and Iaido world do not know much about sword appreciation. To clarrify they are not sword historians...they paractice the arts of the sword and concentrate on that..likewise most sword historians don't practice budo. Forgive me if there are people out there that do....of course there are but on the whole they are a rare bread.....having collected japanese swords and furniture it is a bloody expensive pastime.....!!!!

Aoi art is an excellent Japanese shop who are more than helpful....send them the photo of the tang. I can't tell anything about it other than the sword looks genuine the signature might be a fake...who knows....noone will really tell you that unless the expert sees it firsthand.



The sword is in Handachi mounts with a nice Mokume laqcure( wood effect ) saya, the tsuba ( sword guard) looks like it's made out of shakudo ( a copper and gold alloy 3% gold ) which gives it the black patina.

Anyway good luck....half the fun is the research...hehehehehehe

What country do you live in......there are Japanese sword societies that can help you...

Kind regards
Robert Anderson

[Chiburi]

I'm certainly no expert in this, but since you're desperate for an answer, I can tell you my opinion.

The saya of the sword caught my attention; to be exact, what I believe to be the shibakiki. That is, the metal collar ca. 7 cm from the ishizuke, or the mounting in the closed end of the saya. It is characteristic to a Shingunto, which I believe only dates back to WWII. I didn't see an obi-tori on the saya, typical to a Shingunto. Nevertheless, the ishizuke and kabuto-gane (tsuka kashira) both point towards it.
I also have the idea that the tsuba is also typical to those swords (cross-like shape)

I didn't find from my bookmarks a site that would have something on a Shingunto for sure. I'm going to give you a link to a good site about Nihontos you can visit:

Meiboku (http://www.meiboku.demon.co.uk/guide/index.htm)

If I find a better site on this, I'll post it in this thread.

And please contact someone who is an expert on Japanese swords!

Cheers,

[Rog]

Gentlemen - - -

***
Robert Anderson -aka- Shoki:
re: "half the fun is the research...hehehehehehe"
ah "bloodie hell", another sadist like myself.....
and about: "Aoi art" Japanese shop, this I will follow up -
Tangs a lot (pun intended).
re: "Most people that I have experienced in the Kendo and Iaido world do not know
much about sword appreciation."
This I can appreciate, since I also own a computer; but, have not a clue how it works!

***
Otto Kari -aka- Chiburi:
re: "please contact someone who is an expert on Japanese swords!"
Aside from "Aoi art", would you know of a preputable person in the good old
"U S of A", preferrably New York state area - close by, i.e Pennsylvania, Ohio -
or even our good neighbor - Ontario, Canada.

About this sword - it appears you perused the photo's, and have a keen eye.
From what little I have learned, this weapon was brought back to the US after WWII
by an unknown returning GI. The blade as it appears now was apparently refitted at
this point in time with new mountings and saya.

Having inherited some artifacts from my father-in-law, who served in the Phillipines
with the U.S. Navy - "Sea-Bee's" unit, I simply wanted to add to that collection. This
weapon caught my eye merely because it appeared to be at the very least a WWII
artifact that would compliment the collection.

The party from whom I purchased the sword obviously had less knowledge than I
about the weapon, since they had never removed the Tsuba. Upon a quick, and
discreet inspection, it seemed to have the potential for something greater
(little did I know).

I have uploaded a few more photo's of this weapon at the website, which I hope are a
bit better viewing quality.

Now I am "off to see the wizard", perhaps he can help me in my quest. Hot-dang, I
feel a bit like Indiana Jones!

A thousand "Thanks" to you both for your time and efforts -
Have a great New Year.....


:smilejapa

[Rog]

Robert Anderson -aka- Shoki:

On another note near and dear:

Hmmmm - a police officer, you say?
I always thought you were known as - "bobbies"!!!
But then "you" are, aren't you ;- )

Years ago I read a great book about Sir Robert Peel,
and his tenents of police work, i.e.
http://www.newwestpolice.org/peel.html

Too bad little of this is not studied in our own
law enforcement academies.....


P.S.
Check out the attached photo; and,
look over "my" right shoulder.....

[Daishi]

Roger,
A better place to ask your question may be the Bugei Sword forum. I am a member and know that it is filled with extremely knowledgeable people. I believe someone there may be better able to answer your question. The web site is
http://www.swordforumbugei.com

Good luck!


Dale Heisler

[Rog]

Dale Heisler -aka- Daishi:

"Been there, done that!"
Errrr - just moments ago that is.....

So much information out here on the internet;
and, so little idea of where to find it!!!

re: "Interests firearms, pointy sticks"
Ok - the firearms I understand; but,
please tell me you are not training with -
"toothpicks" ;-)

and, just who was this player wearing
the Edmonton Oilers uniform #99?

"Thanks" for the heads-up on - Bugei.com swordforum
Probably never would have tripped over it.....

Rog :wave:

[Daishi]

Ok, I guess I was a little vague. I meant swords, japanese style to be exact. Suppose I should change that....


Dale Heisler

[Shoki]

Roger,

Nice photo!

The sword mounts in my humble opinion may well be older than WW2, they are in the style knwon as Handachi mounts ( in between standard katana and Tachi mounts )and these were used from way back in the samuari days of old, at least 17th century. these mounts were used in the WW2 but were of standard style and material of metal....copper, very cheap and nasty looking.....

Yours look like a copper alloy ....shakudo with nice carvings......the menuki as well are not of standard WW2 style ( which were three cherry blossoms )

Saying that one would have to see it close up ....of course the sword may well have been so treasured or worn by a high ranking officer to warrant civilain mounts.....all in all I am no expert but the sword is not mounted in Gunto mounts ( i.e WW2 mounts )

The tsuba is carved in wave design....and of Mokko design again dating back to the old style of Tachi mounts......

Regards
Robert Anderson

[Rog]

Well, I certainly am estatic that people like yourself, and the others here on this board, have been willing to share their knowledge in this matter.

Also, if anyone has any tips for taking better quality photo's of a Katana please pass them along.

About "my" photo - I was much younger at the time! Rumor has it that the photographer, who was an expert in his own rights, had to do major retouching of the negative before giving it to me - say it isn't so.....

[Chiburi]

Thank you, Robert, for correcting my mistake!

Cheers,

[ghp]

Hello Rog,

The inscription is definitely Ise [no] Kami Fujiwara Nobusada. That is, "Lord Fujiwara Nobusada of Ise" -- "lord" being an honorific, not gentry; "kami" was at times awarded to distinguished swordsmiths (and perhaps others??). At 22", the blade appears to be that of a wakizashi -- a "short sword". Unfortunately, I cannot tell you if the signature is authentic.

I recall Dr. Richard Stein's name from "SwordForum" -- here is his forum (http://pub79.ezboard.com/fjapaneseswordrestorationfrm12.showMessage?topicID=2.topic), and his sword index (http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/nihonto.htm). Mei [signatures] and tips on reading them {shows "Kami"} here (http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/kanji/kanji1.htm)

Regards,
Guy

[Rog]

Guy H. Power -aka- ghp:

"Thanks" for the web site info,
I'll check them out as quickly as I can.
I've been searching through some of the sites listed previously - hmmmm, very interesting!!!

Rog :D